Posts by Spiral

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

Spiral

I have many friends who are in the various cleaning professions. They are frustrated because it's hard physical work and by the time you are in your 50s it is so hard. Plus no insurance or retirement. I know several who now regret not going to college or some training where they wouldn't have to work so hard physically at this stage of life. They thought Armageddon would have happened by now.

17

Wear were you in the "Pecking order" in the congro??

by karter in

we were right down with the very lowest.. father never a jw we had a po with little mans syndrome and love to pick on sisters that had no husband to stand up for them,he picked on my mother only to find out he picked on the wrong person,she came from a hard up bringing and didn't take any s###t from anyone particularly this little bully and we were very poor...how low can you get!.

karter..

Spiral

My dad never got baptized so we were always at the bottom of the ladder. But this ultimately proved to be an advantage because I had "worldly" friends growing up without any resistance. Looking back, that helped me out and made me use my brain.

My mom did experience bullying from elders and was mocked by certain elderettes. Ugh. But, my dad was a big burly guy and no one tried to bully him.

49

"If I wasn't born a JW, I would never have become one."

by OneEyedJoe in

i've seen it mentioned by a few on the forum that at some point there was a realization that had they not been born a jw, they never would've converted no matter how many times the jws tried to study with them.

this was my experience too, and i'm wondering how universal it is for those that were born-in but eventually left.

i think i started having this thought (more specifically that if i were not born a jw, i would surely have become an atheist by now) in my late teens.

Spiral

"Magnum: Back when I was in my late teens and early 20's and I was questioning/seeking (late 70's & early 80's), JWs seemed more normal and they seemed to make sense. They could answer most of my questions (but not the really big ones). I had friends who went to church and literally didn't even know what the books of the Bible were. I also observed church on TV, and what I saw was a shallow, phony, money-grabbing joke. This put me in the frame of mind to accept JWs. They seemed to really study the Bible; they weren't "churchy".

Also, I loved the idea of a paradise earth wherein there would be no more suffering and injustice. The JWs back then seemed more intelligent and knowledgeable, the literature seemed deeper and more scholarly, and the org seemed more serious and dignified. Information about the real history of JWs was not readily available."

This is what kept me in "the Truth"(TM) for awhile.... back then everyone did seem more normal and less "churchy". Now I just can't stand it - I never wanted to be in a fundamentalist church! The only way I stayed in was because it wasn't a fundy church..... now of course that's exactly what it is.

49

"If I wasn't born a JW, I would never have become one."

by OneEyedJoe in

i've seen it mentioned by a few on the forum that at some point there was a realization that had they not been born a jw, they never would've converted no matter how many times the jws tried to study with them.

this was my experience too, and i'm wondering how universal it is for those that were born-in but eventually left.

i think i started having this thought (more specifically that if i were not born a jw, i would surely have become an atheist by now) in my late teens.

Spiral

I know I would have never have considered being a JW (or any religion for that matter) if I hadn't been "born in" and coerced? shamed? forced? into getting baptised at 13. I am not and never have been religious in nature. Talking to someone at the door about religion has always seemed alien to me. I never enjoyed service and I can't imagine why anyone would ever study with a stranger that came to the door.

I knew this growing up as well. I regret just doing what I was told to do but I'm out now! yeah!

52

The Deep Things of Jehovah(tm). What are they?

by punkofnice in

i just wondered.

.

Spiral

"Half Banana: So the deep things of God were a reference to the exclusive things which only the cult hierarchy were privy to. It was for for the initiated only...(like those who believe in the sacred but unbiblical Watchtower mystery of 1919!)

Then why was it written down? To bamboozle the ignorant and poor so they reverence the “holy” mysteries and thereby become slaves under the control of the religious hierarchy."

Yep. Ever changing gibberish that makes the members (and certainly the leaders) feel special.

When I was a child I used to wonder why Jehovah never did anything in a direct and forthright way, everything was always convoluted. Now of course I get it, it's all a cult construct.

Edit: Half Banana, great info on the development of early Christianity.

43

It amazes me...

by punkofnice in

..to think about how the congregations actually function....even down to the individual level.. the biggest bully on the boe (or his wife), controls the show.. ones within the congregation are treated like they're dirt and still they return.

stockholm syndrome?.

i've heard ones say that 'jehovah(tm) will sort it all out.

Spiral

I just was confronted with this attitude again, "no matter how messed up the org is and all the problems, it's still the Truth (TM) and you have to stay loyal." This from an old friend (who doesn't know I've faded).

I wanted to say "do you HEAR the NONSENSE you are saying????

Oh, but that paragon of efficiency, GOD will fix it in his due time.

If I did my job like that I'd be fired, and this person would understand that. But they think it's okay for "God's organization" to be run like that and they need to "stay loyal".

Brainwashing at its finest.

40

WT Study 1/10/16 Encouraging Child Baptism And More Nonsense

by JW_Rogue in

i've noticed that each wt lesson really only has one or two points they want remembered.

normally they build up to these by about the third subheading.

this week's lesson though was different, the main point was insidiously made through an experience in the first paragraph:.

Spiral

This is something that really proves to me that the current GB are convinced that that rank and file are just stupid. Growing up, many of my generation that got baptized young left, so there was a lot of talk about the sacredness of baptism and not getting baptized too young. This lasted for 15-20 years I think. Now, the push is on for even pre-teens to get baptized. Obviously to boost the numbers and control families, keeping the congregations intact and to boost contributions.

But recently I've heard a lot of grumbling about this from ones in my age group, who have seen too much damage from this. It is child abuse. At some point even the more indoctrinated ones with damaged families are saying "hmmm, would this have turned out better if we had never been JWs?" But the 30-something elder families are really pushing their children. So sad.

43

It amazes me...

by punkofnice in

..to think about how the congregations actually function....even down to the individual level.. the biggest bully on the boe (or his wife), controls the show.. ones within the congregation are treated like they're dirt and still they return.

stockholm syndrome?.

i've heard ones say that 'jehovah(tm) will sort it all out.

Spiral

Hey Punk ~ Yep, just saw an example of this today. Apparently the day's text is warning people that they better be on God's (read: GB) side or you will DIE. I'd look it up but I don't want to lose my breakfast.

So, the conversation went on to say that even though there is trouble in the congregation, with this one, because of bullying from that one, not being as loving as before, etc., at least you're not with worldly people! (I thought they were losing that term, anyway.......) So, as poorly as you're treated inside, at least you're not OUTSIDE. (No escape!!!)

This from a couple of overly controlled, don't think for themselves, look to the brothers for guidance type middle aged sisters.

I excused myself to go to work ;-) lol

23

Women in this Org are looking for a Father Figure

by xjwsrock in

this is a rant mainly in response to my wife's reaction to the stupid clam meeting last night.

bear in mind, while i am not sexist, i am also not politically correct.

.... it is no secret that the women in this organization outnumber the men.

Spiral

This is really an interesting thought and I need to think it through.... I do know "off the top of my head" a few sisters that this would definitely apply to. I've always wondered what is wrong with some of these sisters, almost as if they are the 100th wife of a polygamous man. They get so little attention and are able to participate in almost nothing BUT they are so happy to be in that sorry state.

My father was the "unbeliever" and he HATED religion. But, I never felt that connected to him so I while I respected his opinions (especially now) I don't know if that has contributed to how I feel about TTATT.

91

Is the Watchtower organisation facing the biggest crisis of its history?

by slimboyfat in

recent developments make me think they might be.

the problems they are facing are not just lack of funds but also draining authority, and the two could be a heady and explosive mix.

one of the best analyses ever written of the watchtower was a book called "trumpet of prophecy" by sociologist james beckford in the 1970s.

Spiral

SBF, I think you make good points. My observation here locally is that a lot of people are uncomfortable with how the GB presents itself on the videos (classless and tacky), but no one is talking. (The silence is LOUD!!!)

As for the book study, eliminating that was a big mistake. They should have eliminated the school/service meeting instead, people really find that boring, at least the book study had some social aspect to it people enjoyed.

When it comes to the overlapping generation doctrine, anointed numbers going up, and the ARC hearings, I notice that if you bring it up the subject gets changed quickly. Hmmmm..... no one is talking.

Meanwhile, my elderly mother (who actually has the means to do so) hasn't given anything in ages. She's so confused by the changes she doesn't think about giving more money. (And will I remind her? Noooooooo) She won't watch the videos either, they make her "nervous".

Everyone else here locally is of modest income and doesn't have much to contribute. Serves them right.