Posts by Spiral

62

Why do Americans have to pay so much for College???

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

i know there is a huge college/university lobby here in the us that lives off of students paying, in some cases, enormous amounts of money just to attend.. putting politics aside, if that is possible, (and i am not a bernie sanders guy by any means), but how can we pay for pre-kindergarten, kindergarten, elementary school, junior high, high school, and then throw a huge debt to someone who wants to continue learning?

can't the us (public and state universities) afford four more years for young people to get on a career path without having to, in some cases, take out a mortgage/loan more than the cost of some homes?

then, (and nothing against immigrants, i am married to one), but then the us has to "import" students from other countries to fill the needs that we should be supplying here.

Spiral

Our attitude about education is very dysfunctional in the US. We think two limiting things: One, education needs to "pay" for itself (in dollars) in the workplace. So, if you need higher education or training to do a job, it should cost the student a significant amount. Two, parts of our society believe only the privileged should have access to higher education. The worker bees should only do what we think is "blue collar" work and only need the education to succeed in what is (incorrectly) perceived as low level jobs.

Education for the benefit of society isn't even acknowledged as a right for the average citizen.

So, since we think everything should be linked to profit, higher quality education for most people doesn't matter. The minority who do get a good quality higher education often have that sense of entitlement that we are all acquainted with.

We've shot ourselves in the foot in this matter (among so many other things).

38

How Many Here Remember Hearing Details from the Platform on Why a Person was Reproved or DF'd ???

by RubaDub in

i just had this flashback when commenting on another thread about how they used to announce reproof or dfing from the platform.

at least in our congregation, it was a dramatic event (this is what i can remember from back in the mid-late 60's or early 70's when i was a kid).. at the end of the service meeting, just before singing the final song, the brother would announce, "we have a letter that must be read.

the "congregation servant" (my grandfather or later my father) would then slowly walk from the back of the kh to the platform.

Spiral

@cofty, and yet they never seem to see the irony that they put people in this position. Getting reinstated just to never be seen again, but can be with family.

If they had any spiritual understanding whatsoever, they rank and file would question the need for the process.

44

Allowed?

by punkofnice in

a jobo i know has cancer.

her son goes and cleans her house and generally cares for her.

so does another non-jobo relative.. the congregation, interestingly, has shown very little support apart from the odd one rabbiting on about 'bible promises this and that'.. so, the co visited and said, 'but your son is an apostate(tm).

Spiral

Road to Nowhere: Family business. PERIOD

I was just told that my end of life directive should list an elder I hardly know over pimo and df children.

THIS kind of thing is appalling. I've seen it here. How dare they suggest that the "brothers" (ugh) are a better person to have legal authority over a person than their own children, who just happen to not be JWs. Somehow, that can't be legal. It's certainly not appropriate.

I can't believe the sheep follow along with this and don't think anything about it. No common sense whatsoever.

44

Allowed?

by punkofnice in

a jobo i know has cancer.

her son goes and cleans her house and generally cares for her.

so does another non-jobo relative.. the congregation, interestingly, has shown very little support apart from the odd one rabbiting on about 'bible promises this and that'.. so, the co visited and said, 'but your son is an apostate(tm).

Spiral

Several sick and elderly people where I am - PIMI ones. But no one is organized to help them at all. Their relatives, for the most part, don’t do much either. A couple I know would go hungry if it wasn’t for meals on wheels (county delivering a meal every day for older people).

When we were younger, the congregation would organize some help. Now, if it’s not about service or cart sitting, nothing is done on a congregational level. Somehow, they don’t think it’s their duty. I often wonder what’s happened to these JWs. No feeling left.

The worldly government and local churches, by contrast, have lots of services available.

10

Jehovah's Witnesses Mega Halls

by RolRod in

i was thinking about this recently.

the society owns all the kingdom halls and with desperate need of money, their closing down and selling off properties.

consolidating congregations seems to be the order of the day.

Spiral

@Sir82, I also agree with you. But the bOrg seems to be going in two different directions at the moment.

Years ago, the elders were into everyone's business, and you couldn't sneeze without permission. It was unthinkable not to have book studies and assigned service groups.

They still like to maintain this type of control, but something - perhaps a pressing need to make money, and move it around where it can't be found - seems to be driving the real estate decisions they are making. 13 years ago, where we were, the bOrg sold a nice double KH. No pressing reason to do it (plenty of donating attendees) and no replacements were ever made. Created a huge burden on the scattered rank and file (especially the older ones) and many people ultimately faded away. Why did they do it? The only reason had to be $$$$. The WT held the title and all the money went straight to them.

So although I'm sure they want to keep controlling everyone, there seems to be an urgent profit motive here. An urban KH in a good location is just ripe for the picking. A rural hall, not so much. So perhaps trying to fool city publishers into going to a megachurch is just a way to spin the real situation.

10

Jehovah's Witnesses Mega Halls

by RolRod in

i was thinking about this recently.

the society owns all the kingdom halls and with desperate need of money, their closing down and selling off properties.

consolidating congregations seems to be the order of the day.

Spiral

I think that's definitely an option, especially for urban areas. It's not as if they really need smaller centers to coordinate the preaching work, that's all gone by the wayside.

I have a couple of friends who attend megachurches. If they don't attend, they can watch online. Preacherman always is on one of the big screens, the choir on the other.

They love it. Being part of a big congregation (if you can really even call it a congregation, at that size) is part of the thrill. Occasionally there's a big event (picnic, hot dogs, music, etc.) in a city park.

It doesn't appeal to me, but as they always remind me, being a JW ruined me for all religion. (Yes, it did.)

25

For those of you who've watched the Witnesses documentary, let's suppose for a moment that...

by My Name is of No Consequence in

for those of you who've watched the witnesses documentary, let's suppose for a moment that the org was forced to make their database of abusers available to the courts.

if this database is as detailed and meticulous as it is claimed, how in the world could the org (in its present form) survive that?

assuming they don't go bankrupt after all of the new abuse claims, would they go underground, shut down the kingdom halls, stop the preaching?

Spiral

@StephaneLaliberte, I agree.

Why are they even keeping that information? I'd think it would be time to hit the delete button. (Although no one would believe that ever really happened.)

Does anyone know?

38

How Many Here Remember Hearing Details from the Platform on Why a Person was Reproved or DF'd ???

by RubaDub in

i just had this flashback when commenting on another thread about how they used to announce reproof or dfing from the platform.

at least in our congregation, it was a dramatic event (this is what i can remember from back in the mid-late 60's or early 70's when i was a kid).. at the end of the service meeting, just before singing the final song, the brother would announce, "we have a letter that must be read.

the "congregation servant" (my grandfather or later my father) would then slowly walk from the back of the kh to the platform.

Spiral

I can remember the brother using the phrase "so-and-so is disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a Christian".

Then, a week later, there would be a local needs talk about fornication, or something scandalous. So, you knew (assuming you hadn't heard already) what the deal was. The talks would sometimes be full of detail. The innocent mate would be sniffling in the back. Creepy and disgusting, really.

I also remember hearing that the previous practice of giving a reason was stopped because some people sued the congregation for slander. Not sure if that's true.

30

If you're "anointed" don't seek out other "anointed" so says the Watchtower January 2020

by RolRod in

when i was affiliated with the witnesses, there were barely 6,000 who profess to be of the anointed remnant.

i recently read somewhere that today there are over 20,000 who profess to be anointed.

that figure may be more when you consider those who meet and partake privately for fear of the stigma of claiming to be anointed.

Spiral

It does show that they are struggling to keep the message on track. Sounds like they are feeling threatened. Otherwise, why even put this in a WT?

28

Dissolved Congregations--Minneapolis--St. Paul.

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

we know all the dissolved congregations in minneapolis/st.

paul now:.

1. lake of the isles .

Spiral

Atlantis, thank you!

That kind of shrinkage sounds HUGE.

I think anyone - even the most devoted JW - would see this happening and understand that things are going downhill fast.

Even their own calculation of 17.3% decrease (best case scenario) in just one year is huge.

So I'm thinking that this frees up lots of real estate that they can sell, besides the KH on a superfund site. (And how does THAT happen, anyway?)

And what's going to happen to the assembly halls in areas where publisher counts are shrinking? Wait - more real estate to sell!