Posts by Silverleaf

47

What is faith REALLY?

by Silverleaf in

jw
friends

i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.

"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".

if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?

Hello Shelby, thanks for responding.
I have to be honest, I re-read your posts over several times and I still have trouble understanding your meanings. I do apologize if I sound sarcastic, I really, really don’t mean to be.

You wrote:
Did you really get that out of what I was permitted to share? REALLY? Your dog 'rolls in the crap', SLeaf... be he/she's... A DOG. Now, if your dog got lost, say 3,500 miles from home, but somehow made it back... I would not hesitate to say... he asked... and was 'guided' and that perhaps that's why some DON'T make it back. I have not asked my Lord on this matter, so in truth, I do not know. <<

I understand what you’re saying, however, just as the same applies to humans, to say that an individual [whether a human or an animal] asks for help from the Lord and receives it because they had faith and asked sincerely, is fine, but to say that an individual who asks for help or guidance and does not receive it, does not because they were not sincere, or did not have enough faith or the right faith or did not ask the right way, falls short as an explanation.

>>And how exactly can a plant disobey?

As I said to DWilt, "Do you recall the fig tree that refused to produce food for the Son of God? Producing food was the very purpose of that tree's existence; yet, when called upon to do so... it did not. And so, was 'cursed'." <<

You’re saying that plants have free will also. Okay. I’ll have to think about that for a while. It’s interesting – I’m not sure I agree, but it’s worth thinking about anyway.

>>Oh, you’re not saying that man is to animal as man is to woman are you? Please tell me that’s not what you’re saying because I’ll have to hurl if you are.

Now why would that make you 'hurl'. No, man is not 'to animal', as man is 'to woman'. Of COURSE not. The point I believe my Father was MAKING is that just as woman is supposedly 'in subjection' to man, man is not SUPERIOR to woman, and indeed must HONOR woman. In the same way, man is superior to ANIMALS... and so because they (animals) are a form of LIFE, they too are deserving of 'honor'. <<

Thanks for clarifying that. I DID misunderstand your earlier paragraph. And yes, I am made physically ill when anyone puts forth the idea that ‘man’ was supposed to be superior to ‘woman’ and that ‘woman’ should be happy as a clam to be subjugated by ‘man.’ I’m glad that’s not what you were saying, and again I apologize for my misunderstanding.

Peace to you as well,
Silverleaf

47

What is faith REALLY?

by Silverleaf in

jw
friends

i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.

"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".

if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?

Silverleaf

Hello SJ – Shelby? Thanks for responding.

You wrote:

>>When Noah was told to build the ark... who else heard it?
When Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac... who else heard it?
When my Father called Samuel... who else heard it?

YOU know you heard it; YOU know you saw it. Does it matter then, really that OTHERS know or hear and see it to? Does it matter that others BELIEVE that you heard and/or saw it? No... not if you have faith.
FAITH... dear ones... is KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE... BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEEN... AND/OR YOU HAVE HEARD... IT, and it matters not what others think of your saying so, what others TRY to tell you is 'true'.
>>

I agree that faith need not be corroborated by others. It’s a personal thing, so personal in fact that I cannot understand why God would speak to a certain person or group of people and then expect them to incite faith in others to whom He had not spoken.

>>It is NOT 'instinct' that says 'geese fly south for the winter.' It is my Father's voice, through my Lord that says, "It's time to go, beloved ones." Those that 'hear'... and obey... go. Those that don't, usually lose their lives. Yes, even animals... in fact, even PLANTS... can be obedient... or disobedient. ALL life has the potential to obey... or disobey... for ALL life... possesses spirit.<<

I really don’t mean to be irreverent, but you’re saying that the reason my dog rolls in crap sometimes is because the Lord told him to? Or did he do it purposely to disobey God?

And how exactly can a plant disobey?

>>Thus, there IS NO SUPERIORITY of the man over the beast. We were to 'honor' and care for them in the SAME way as a man was to honor and care for a woman... who was in subjection to HIM.<<

Oh, you’re not saying that man is to animal as man is to woman are you? Please tell me that’s not what you’re saying because I’ll have to hurl if you are.

I do agree with the general theme of your post, though, that our faith, whatever it may be, should not have to be proven to others, only to ourselves and if we choose to have faith in something, it is just that, only a choice.

Silverleaf

47

What is faith REALLY?

by Silverleaf in

jw
friends

i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.

"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".

if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?

Silverleaf

Hi Ranchette,

You wrote: Faith is belief without proof.

Dan wrote: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

nytelcom1 wrote: Faith is believing in something you
know doesnt exist.

I can't dispute any of these answers. But I raise these questions:

1. Why is it wrong to want proof of something before we believe in it?

2. Why is 'faith' needed for God to supposedly care enough about us to try to reach us personally, but 'belief' is not?

Am I making sense?

Silverleaf

47

What is faith REALLY?

by Silverleaf in

jw
friends

i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.

"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".

if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?

Silverleaf

Dan wrote:

I have faith that everytime I leave my apartment in the morning to go to work, my cats begin conversing aout world affairs and the latest episode of FRIENDS.

Okay, this may be what faith is, but 'truth' is that FRIENDS is not intellectually stimulating enough for cats.

Silverleaf

47

What is faith REALLY?

by Silverleaf in

jw
friends

i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.

"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".

if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?

Silverleaf

Hello all,

I've been interested in the discussion on the 'For those of us who believe in God' thread and AGuest wrote this:

"we have been MISLED into understand what 'faith' REALLY is."

If we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith REALLY is? AGuest, I'd love to hear your ideas.

Silverleaf

8

The scariest Place on Earth........

by spike in

jw
friends

no, i'm not referring to the borg palace in n.y. i was watching the tv show where they select a family to spend a night roaming around a haunted island, castle etc.

now if the god/devil concept isn't right, what causes the energy forces to scare the hell out of those people?

if this was discussed before, bear with me i'm a newbie trying to figure out what to believe.. never give up, and never under any circumstances, face the facts-r.gordon

Silverleaf

Hi all,

I wasted two hours last night watching that show which is sooo much hype it's just sad. I'm sure those poor people really were scared out of their wits and I'm sure the producers and staff of the show made sure they 'heard' noises and 'saw' shadows and such, and of course as MrMoe said, the power of suggestion is very strong.

I do believe that spirits exist though and that they can try to communicate. I just can't believe they will do it on cue for TV cameras.

Silverleaf

23

Holidays: Do you celebrate?

by Vitameatavegamin in

jw
friends

i smell something burning; oh, just me thinking again!!.

anyway, one thing i always missed were the holidays-christmas especially.

i know that this is an unproven celebration to say the least, but i have always loved the warmth and beauty of this holiday, although very commercialized in this day and age.

Silverleaf

Hello MrMoe,

You wrote: Good line of thinking Silverleaf.

Thanks. I was handed that line as well in regards to Mother's Day and Father's Day being wrong because we should honor our parents every day. While it's true that 365 days are better than one, isn't one day better than none?

I digress though. I would like to know how the JWs explain the meanings of the verses quoted in this thread, especially the one by crossroads [Mark] regarding new moons and sabbaths. Anyone?

Silverleaf

23

Holidays: Do you celebrate?

by Vitameatavegamin in

jw
friends

i smell something burning; oh, just me thinking again!!.

anyway, one thing i always missed were the holidays-christmas especially.

i know that this is an unproven celebration to say the least, but i have always loved the warmth and beauty of this holiday, although very commercialized in this day and age.

Silverleaf

Hello Vita,

In response to your question I'll quote the only book of the Bible that actually contained some meaning for me:

Ecclesiastes

3:12 I know that there is nothing better for them than to be happy and enjoy themselves as long as they live.

9:7 Go eat your bread with enjoyment and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has long ago approved what you do.

These are perhaps the only two versus I found that described what I thought God should be. My personal feeling is, why would any creator NOT want us to celebrate? Whether it's a birth or anniversary of a birth, a marriage, a victory, a friendship, a season, what good are we really if we don't appreciate what we have, and what better way to appreciate something than to celebrate with a holiday, a tradition, a party, a song, a feast, whatever makes you happy? Enjoy the holidays, whatever ones you choose. I can't imagine that any truly loving God would object at all.

Silverleaf

90

For those of us who still believe in God...

by MrMoe in

jw
friends

i would like to know why you still beleive in god and what, based upon the bible, leads you to believe in god.. i likethe scripture that states the earth was a circle and hung upon nothing.

i also find that there is evidence the flood existed.

anybody know the stats of the "supposed" ark on mr. ararat?.

Silverleaf

First let me say, I believe in diety, not the god of the Bible and I was never a JW but only close to one for a time before our relationship was destroyed by the society.

As logical said:
The beauty of the creation, the way everything works in harmony, the sheer complexity of everything all proves in itself intelligent design.

I tend to agree, however Chris has a point that needs to be addressed:
He wrote:

Why is there so much violence in nature? Harmony?

It depends on how you look at it. If you mean hunting, killing, fighting etc, that takes place in the animal and insect world, yes, we see this as violent, however it is part of the cycle of life. Survival is what we are here for - and death is part of life.

Why do human crave food that are bad for them? Harmony?

I think there's a screw up there of the natural order. Humans were meant to want the foods that are good for them, but our brains get in the way of our instincts and we are able to put aside our natural inclinations to survive and make decisions that are unhealthy for us. I see the human race as being adolescent. We have the capacity to reach our full intelligence but we haven't yet, so right now we're still able to do things that are bad for us simply because we can.

Why does that human body have so many flaws? Harmony?

What flaws specifically? I'm not begging the question. The human body is fragile, breakable, subject to disease and it wears out rather quickly. I don't think this is because humans sinned and God wants to punish us, I think it's because the human body is only a temporary home for the soul. If it never wore out, we would not be able to move on to the next life. Now if you examine all the intricate systems that make a healthy human body work, it is rather miraculous. The flaws occur when something acts on the systems to break them down, the flaws are not in the systems themselves.

Why do people kill each other? Harmony?

Tons of reasons. Religion is a biggie, jealously, survival, flaws in mentality and intelligence, poverty, difference of opinion. It's not harmonious. It's the growing pains of an adolescent species.

I'm only interested in logical explanations, not in JW bullshit.

Sorry, I don't know how logical all this is, but it isn't JW bullshit at least. It's Pagan bullshit.

Silverleaf

21

The Real Whore of Babylon

by Uncanny in

jw
friends

today i noticed on television via 'entertainment tonight' how that supposed, self-proclaiming jehovah's witness 'sister' and top rating professional tennis player, venus williams, is back in the news again.. this time she was shown cuddling up to her italian bodyguard.

she had quite a loving expression on her face, while he had a glint in his eyes which seemed to say he'd like to do more things with venus' well toned body than just protect it from intruders or perceived danger.. last year, i posted on h 20 how appalled i was on viewing sr venus running around courtside with an american flag after she won wimbledon in england.

then there were those stationary tv close-ups while she stood reverently at attention as they played the u.s. national anthem.. my gripe in all this blatant display of double standards not so much concerns ms. williams' antics, but rather how they continue to be tolerated by her religion's governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

Silverleaf

In response to Uncanny, I think the reason that famous JWs tend to 'get away' with a different standard than the rank and file is because if they encountered some of the horrible situations described here, their accounts might appear in national or international media, and wouldn't that be bad for the organization?

Silverleaf