Simon

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Posts by Simon

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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I don't know why, but you're giving me Hong Kong Fooey vibes

  Yeah, that's me - number-one super guy, quicker than the human eye. Ha, I remember that cartoon!

  I think he's making statements about legal action in the hopes of getting people to stop talking about his situation, both the parts that are known for sure and the parts that are speculation or not corroborated (yet?). He might be creating a version of the Streisand Effect, where your efforts to stop people from talking about something end up drawing even more attention to it.

  I agree, he's still handling this all wrong. The best thing he could have done is come out and say he'd messed up, apologize to everyone he'd hurt and let down and promise to do better. Then take a loooong break.

  I think the opportunity to do that has long passed and this act he's doing of carrying on as though everything is fine is going to backfire.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  she said that Djiana knows about screenshots, and letters

  The letters? Do you mean from the alleged PIMO elder?

  I don't know anymore if everyone is even talking about the same things!

  That was an interesting discussion. A few tidbits that were new.

  Personally, the whole exJW thing ... the reason there aren't better examples of people who leave is that the better examples move on. You don't hear about "the teacher" who is an exJW because they are not constantly waiving a flag saying "look at me, I am an exJW who had a mildly conservative quirky religious upbringing but survived".

  The problem is that all the oxygen in the room is being consumed by the people who want to supply the outrage / anger market, the people who want to protest / shout / harass yada yada, not the ones setting the example of how to move on. The media that get's eyeballs is the outrage-porn about what the WTS did wrong last week, and how the GB may be corrupt because someone once went to a liquor store*.

  If people want to help others to leave, the main focus should be on setting a good example of how to do it and how to do it with your family intact. And then providing information and community to help, but that community should only ever be a stepping stone, a temporary place to ask questions, get advice, work through the emotional stages ... and then become an ex-exJW.

  And yes, I know there is some irony, because after all these years ... here I am! But I'm only here with my popcorn for the soap opera, and because someone needs to be the janitor.

  * incidentally, and off topic, I always thought this makes him look pretty humble and down to earth. I mean, he's off doing his own shopping, not just sending some skivvy to do it for him. Maybe not what you'd expect of a higher-up in any organization.
  
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I am going to have to agree with slimboyfat here. "Marko" needs to make himself known or this simply doesn't look good. Don't take this the wrong way, but it would be nice to move beyond the "trust me he's real" stage.

  I agree. The longer it remains effectively just an anonymous accusation, the less believable it becomes.

  Again, there can be details we aren't privy to, reasons for things to happen or not happen, but they were made public and that shouldn't happen unless someone intends to "go public". Anonymous leaks or accusations have less voracity because anyone can make them.
  
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  From page 309 of the Reluctant Apostate.... another plot twist

  Nothing todo with Lloyd, but if anyone reads that you should know there is really nothing to gain from meeting with the WTS, and you don't have to in order to leave. They will pretend you have to, that it's procedure. But just because it's theirs doesn't mean it has to be yours.

  If you want to "part ways", all you have to do is simply stop going. They have no authority or power over you other than what you give them.

  Simply stop going, and tell them not to contact you. Congratulations, you left!
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  This talk of legal action reminded me of Lloyd's opinion in the case of 'watchtower vs Faithleaks'

  Notice it's always different rules for other people, not the same rules for him. He's "special". Maybe he didn't like seeing donations going elsewhere, that he figures may have come his way instead.

  I expect there are lots of statements that he's made that will now be ironically funny and dripping with hypocrisy given the recent revelations. He'll now always be a caricature of what he imagines he is.

  But he is right, this will follow him now, whatever he does, even if he does manage to win cases there will be people who will remind him about it so he'll spend the rest of his life playing whack-a-mole. There will be no way to escape it while he tries to continue playing his activist role, his only solution will be finding something else to do.

  He just hasn't realized or accepted his inevitable fate yet.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  He just can’t move on can he. He will NEED the WT for the rest of his life, he can’t survive without them. It’s so fucking sad when you think about it. The WT has Lloyd trapped in a weird merry go round scenario that never ends.

  Lloyd thinks he’s his own man, owns his own mind, and does what he wants. But he NEEDS the WT.

  Exactly, like most activists they become dependent on the very thing they claim to be against, so ultimately, will seek to perpetuate the status quo when it matters. You see the same thing with Elizabeth Warren, who's made a political career out of "holding the big banks to account" yet when something threatens them she is the first to leap to their defence. Because they are what ultimately butter her bread. Never expect anyone to solve a problem when their income is tied to that problem existing.

  He thinks about and spends more time on WT than the average elder pioneer. The average JW forgets about the religion the moment they take their tie off ...

  He’s more trapped than the vast majority of JWs and he doesn’t even know it. And will refuse to ever recognise that sad sad fact. Poor little man.

  I honestly quickly found exJWism boring, because little really changes from year to year and decade to decade. People end up hanging on some minor phrase uttered at an assembly by someone which isn't really much of anything, but do we really need a constant stream of 3hr videos to tell us about it and analyze it from every angle? No, and it's clear we don't because things quickly devolve into hyperbole as though the WTS said something they didn't. Tight pants are immodest? Of course they are, is it genuinely "breaking news" that a conservative religious group says it? No, and don't try to make out it's up there with throwing gays off rooftops.

  I think evidence that things have jumped the shark is trying to make out that a guy buying some bottles of liquor is a massive scandal, even giving it the "...gate" suffix. It's simply laughably pathetic and immature to think it's any kind of smoking gun of anything. Maybe if the WTS had a prohibition against buying any kind of alcohol, it might be, but they don't, so there's not really any story.

  But if your income depends on something happening, you have to pretend that there is.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  You seem to get the same unethical persuasion patterns in all types of abusive relationships, whether they be a marriage, pyramid selling, political groups, or religious groups. You might well ask what would a JW do if they found out their religion was living the life? Some would leave but a lot would stay and it's the same in marriages and relationships when someone finds out something shocking and horrendous about their partner.

  Yeah, it's interesting when you see someone who has been trained by an organization for all their early life in how to use language to manipulate people (i.e. the ministerial training school, and experience as an elder) then use those exact same techniques in their own life to just manipulate a different audience.

  It reminds be too of the phenomenon where it's easier to fool someone than to convince someone they have been fooled. It's almost like the act of admitting it happened is the thing that makes it happen, or makes it real, so to avoid doing that is to avoid it happening, in a weird twisted logic kind of way.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  Hence despite being apostates they still live with her JW parents

  Isn't that quite something? Him railing against the WTS for shunning but them living with JW relatives while he does it ...
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  Why is Dijana still with Lloyd? That is the one thing that bothers me very much. Even if this 14 year-old stuff isn't true, Lloyd admitted to hiring prostitutes frequently, oops I mean every 2 to 3 months for a period of 3 to 4 years.

  Yeah, I've wondered this too, especially how he spoke about her in his non-apology video almost putting some of the "blame" on her. Personally, I can't imagine any woman putting up with that, although I know it must happen. The possibilities I can think of:

  She's very forgiving and has simply forgiven him.

  She''s totally controlled or bullied by him and is trapped.

  She's staying for the kids and / or due to family pressure.

  She's happy with a cut of the money he makes, so "meh".

  She's guilty of playing a part in the coverup of a crime.

  Of course it could be combinations of factors, or something else I can't fathom. It really needs a woman's input - what would you do if your husband was caught living the life he has and was unapologetic about it?
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I already know what you are going to say about this...

  Wow, I totally believe that is his wife, jumping to his defence despite his confession about spending 4 years cheating on her with prostitutes, and not him pretending to be her. Yep, totally legit and completely believable.