Posts by Sirona

13

WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE USING CAPS NOW?

by Rapunzel in

jw
friends

please stop shouting; it hurts my ears.

by the way, i've been thinking of the so-called "liar's paradox.

" you know the one where the cretan [the man from crete] states: "all cretans are liars.

Sirona

Why are there so many totally pointless threads?

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Thanks for the clarification on Allah. I admit I don't know much at all about Islam. Its interesting that you see your god as the same as the god of the muslims. I'd agree and I wonder why follow one and not the other?

Thanks for the other lists of Gods but while it is claimed that each one created some part of the earth, it is not claimed that any of them created everything in the universe.

Not true. I don't know how you can make such statements. Honestly, it appears that the facts mean nothing to you.

Many creation myths suggest that the god (whoever it is) created everything which exists. Just a few examples are:

The Zulu god known as Unkulunkulu , is the Zulu creator. He created everything that is.

In Greek mythology Chaos existed in the beginning and gave birth to everything else.

In earlier Vedic thinking, the universe was created by Hiranyagarbha (here interpreted as 'the golden embryo') or by Prajapati who was born from the Hiranyagarbha (here interpreted as 'the golden womb')

Ptah was eternal and everlasting, and he spake the world and all the gods into existence, in a similar manner to Judaeo - Christian belief about their concept of God .

Sirona

41

i'm being attacked from all angles

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

think my family friends have been in ca hootes!!

i been doing great for this past year, but made mistake of going memorial.

and now being hit from all angles.

Sirona

	20 Ways To Say No

Feel free to use this tip sheet / checklist as you tackle your own ""do-it-yourself"" organizing projects. If you would like to REPRINT or DISTRIBUTE this information, please click here for reprinting instructions.

I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF SEVERAL PROJECTS

let people know when you have accepted other responsibilities
no need to make excuses if you don't have any free time
no one will fault you for having already filled your plate

I AM NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT

you might be uncomfortable with any of a number of issues
the people involved, the type of work, the morale implications, etc.
this is a very respectful way to avoid a sticky situation

I AM NOT TAKING ON ANY NEW RESPONSIBILITIES

you aren't saying that you will never help out again
just that you feel your schedule is as full as you would like now
understanding your limits is a talent to be expected

I AM NOT THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON FOR THE JOB

if you don't feel that you have adequate skills, that's okay
it's better to admit your limitations up front
the best way to avoid feeling overwhelmed down the road

I DO NOT ENJOY THAT KIND OF WORK

life isn't about drudgery -- if you don't enjoy it, why do it?
don't be afraid to let someone know you just don't want to
someone else is bound to enjoy the work you don't

I DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE ROOM IN MY CALENDAR

be honest if your schedule is filled
"filled" doesn't have to mean really filled
know when you are scheduled as much as you are willing and stop

I HATE TO SPLIT MY ATTENTION AMONG PROJECTS

let people know that you want to do a good job for them
but you can't when your focus is too divided or splintered
you will be more effective if you focus on one project at a time

I HAVE ANOTHER COMMITMENT

it doesn't matter what the commitment is
it can even simply be time to yourself or with friends or family
you don't have to justify -- you simply aren't available

I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THAT

volunteering shouldn't mean learning an entirely new set of skills
suggest that they find someone who has experience in that area
offer to help out with something that you already know how to do

I KNOW YOU WILL DO A WONDERFUL JOB YOURSELF

people often ask for help because they doubt their own abilities
let them know that you have confidence they will succeed
you are actually doing them a favor in the long run

I NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON MY PERSONAL LIFE

don't be ashamed of wanting to spend time with your family
having a strong family is an important priority in and of itself
be willing to put your personal needs first

I NEED TO FOCUS ON MY CAREER RIGHT NOW

often, you have to focus your energies on a work-related task
you may have to give up some civic or community duties
if you don't do it, someone else will take on the task

I NEED TO LEAVE SOME FREE TIME FOR MYSELF

it's okay to be selfish -- in a good way!
treat your personal time like any other appointment
block off time in your calendar and guard it with your life

I WOULD RATHER DECLINE THAN DO A MEDIOCRE JOB

know when you aren't going to be able to deliver a quality product
the reason doesn't matter -- not enough time, wrong skills, etc.
whatever the reason is enough for turning a request down

I WOULD RATHER HELP OUT WITH ANOTHER TASK

saying no doesn't mean that you can't help at all
if someone asks you to do something you really despise, refuse
then offer to help with something you find more enjoyable

LET ME HOOK YOU UP WITH SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT

if you aren't available to help out, offer another qualified resource
helping to connect people is a valuable service to offer
make sure the person you refer will represent you well

NO

sometimes it's okay to just say no!
just say it in a way that expresses respect and courtesy
leave the door open for good relations

NOT RIGHT NOW, BUT I CAN DO IT LATER

if you really want to help but don't have time, say so
offer to help at a later time or date
if they can't wait for you, they'll find someone else

SOME THINGS HAVE COME UP THAT NEED MY ATTENTION

unexpected things happen that throw your schedule off
accept that you may need to make a few adjustments
it is temporary and you will have more time when life stabilizes

THIS REALLY IS NOT MY STRONG SUIT

it's okay to admit your limitations
knowing what you can handle and what you can't is a skill
your time will be more efficiently spent on something you do well

http://www.onlineorganizing.com/ExpertAdviceToolboxTips.asp?tipsheet=16

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

That being said though I will have to say this. Just so no one thinks I was conceding that one of your named "gods" could have been the God who created the universe; most of the "gods' you named would easily be disqualified as such. Why? Because they first have to lay a claim as being the creator of the universe to even be considered as such and they have not.

ROFLMAO!

You can't be serious!

Creation stories exist all over the world and nearly every single one has a god creating things. These myths are recorded.

Examples of other creator gods:

Voodoo Damballah (Sky-serpent loa and wise and loving Father archetype) created all the waters of the earth.
Zulu The Ancient One, known as Unkulunkulu, is the Zulu creator. Korea There were heavenly ones in the sky domain. JoMulJu created everything in the universe, Shinto The god Izanagi and goddess Izanami churned the ocean with a spear to make a small island of curdled salt. Two deities went down to the island, mixed there, and bore main islands, deities, and forefathers of Japan. Hindu In Hindu philosophy, the existence of the universe is governed by the Trimurti of Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Sustainer) and Shiva (the Destroyer).

As for your Osiris comment - lets see if Ancient Egypt did attribute creation to a god or gods.

Egyptian
There were at least three separate cosmogenies in Egyptian mythology, corresponding to at least three separate groups of worshippers.

The Ennead, in which Atum arose from the primordial waters (Neith), and masturbated to relieve his loneliness. His semen and breath became Tefnut (moisture) and Shu (dryness), respectively. From Shu and Tefnut, were born Geb (earth), and Nut (sky), who were born in a state of permanent copulation. Shu separated them, and their children were Ausare (Osiris; death), Set (desert), Aset (Isis; life), and Nebet Het (Nephthys; fertile land). Osiris and Isis were a couple, as were Nepthys and Set.
The Ogdoad, in which Ra arose, either in an egg, or a blue lotus, as a result of the creative interaction between the primordial forces of Nu/Naunet (water), Amun/Amunet (air), Kuk/Kauket (darkness), and Huh/Hauhet (eternity). Ra then created Hathor, his wife, with whom they had a son, Hor (Horus; in the form known as Horus the Elder), who was married to Isis. This cosmogeny also includes Anupu (Anubis) as lord of the dead, amongst others.
The third group, for whom Ptah was eternal and everlasting, and he spake the world and all the gods into existence, in a similar manner to Judaeo-Christian belief about their concept of God.

The Muslims have Allah creating everything.

The Qur'an states that God created the world and the heavens, made all the creatures that walk, swim, crawl, and fly on the face of the earth from water. [10] He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. He poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corn, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass.
God molded clay, earth, sand and water into a model of a man. He breathed life and power into it, and it immediately sprang to life. And this first man was called Adam. God took Adam to live in Paradise. In Paradise, God created Eve (or Hawa), the first woman, from out of Adam's side. God taught Adam the names of all the creatures, and then commanded all the angels to bow down before Adam. But Iblis, one amongst the Jinns (a special being in the Qur'an - who is also considered to be Satan), refused to do this, and thus began to disobey God's will.
God placed the couple in a beautiful garden in Paradise, telling them that they could eat whatever they wanted except the fruit of on forbidden tree. But the Evil One tempted them to disobey God, and eat the fruit. When God knew that Adam and Eve had disobeyed him, he cast them out of Paradise and sent them to earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth Your "Jehovah" or "yahweh" doesn't hold all the cards, Lil. Sirona

38

The Science of Religion-recent Economist Article

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

i found this one on the gene expression blog.

does religion confer evolutionary advantage?.

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10875666.

Sirona

Very interesting article, thanks.

I'm particularly fascinated by the psysiological changes which occurred in the experiment with the groups reading the 23rd Psalm.

Sirona

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

Nice Sirona.

It feels just so!

That isn't to say that a person has no hope in life. Just as there are horrible things in life, there are also completely beautiful, wonderful and spiritual experiences to be had.

Sirona

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

If God is perfect and there is such a concept as imperfection then God cannot be entangled with an imperfect universe (else God is imperfect by association.) Which argues either for an imperfect God or an unentangled God. Incarnations of God as recorded by the world's religions argue for a God associated - not just quantumly - but literally with fallen / imperfect matter. Either way we are left with an imperfect God by interaction with that which is imperfect. Maybe though this is just a misapplication of what perfection means to any God.

Qcmbr,

I loved your post!

I agree, and I do see God as non-observing (since I don't see God as a separate conscious entity). God is intrinsic to the universe and is neither perfect nor imperfect (because those measures are man's). Therefore the way I see it is that death and pain and all manner of horrid things are part of the universe and therefore part of God. This God is evolving with us, hopefully towards a less painful existence.

Sirona

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

Lil,

I found your response really interesting because there are areas where we do agree.

I agree though that in the Bible, man tried to communicate "what" God is by using human terminology. As if they could communicate any other way. And I will admit that it is impossible to really say "who" or "what" God is. We simply cannot fully describe him in human terms.

I agree. I simply believe that this is also what other gods are. They are an attempt by man to communicate what "god" is.

In my world view, divinity in the universe exists like a diamond which has millions of facets. Each facet is part of the essence of god. Human beings have simply tried to understand these facets and because we can't, we humanise them. We personify something which is beyond personification. Therefore, Jehovah is simply a man made representation of a facet of the higher divinity (as is Zeus, Isis, Hecate, Allah, etc.).

The destructive aspects of Jehovah (as described in the bible) are there because man could see the destructive essence of the divine. In the whole universe things break down and die and these aspects are part of God just like the wonderful loving aspects. Other representations of the destruction and decay in the universe are gods who similarly act against mankind in some way, like Morrigan or Kali.

You will notice that I use Goddess names aswell as God names. That is because, as the bible says, "God is a spirit". God is not male or female. God contains within him / her the essence of all that is and therefore contains feminine aspects too. So to ignore the feminine aspects means that you are ignoring lots of the beautiful facets of the diamond of divinity.

But just because man tried to do this; do not mistake that for man making a God in his own image. He certainly did not.

Man did do this, because that is all man has been capable of doing in attempts to understand divinity and the universe as a whole. (Note: I don't actually separate the universe and divinity, but thats probably another debate!). However, I'm not saying that man created God, but that God existed in some sense but man just tried to understand by giving him a name and a personality.

There are other gods named in the Bible, even Jehovah himself says this is true. But just because the Bible admits people worshiped other gods, this does not mean that either Jehovah or his followers ever thought these "gods" had any real power. And the scriputures support this view as being so.

I think Tuesday pointed out, this is a bit of a silly argument. I could just as easily say that Gods name is Allah because the Koran says so, and all other books are pointless. Its a circular reasoning which just doesn't help.

Think about it; had man made God in HIS image and likeness, why would the God of the Bible be so Holy and Perfect that the Bible writers admit "no man can attain to his glory?". That would not make sense. Peace, Lilly

Once again, I don't think man created God. I do think that the gods of the religions of the world are created by man in the sense that they are our attempt at understanding the divine. The god of the bible is spoken of as being holy and perfect because men gave those names to him, likely because of their own transcendent experiences of this holy and perfect divine essence. They knew of divine essence and tried to explain in their own words what that meant. Conversely they gave us a good idea of how he can wreak vengeance aswell!

Sirona

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

About the flying spaghetti monster, Leprechans, pink unicorns, Santa etc. being God. There is no way any logical person can concede that any of these could be God. Why? 1 ) Because we know these are all man made inventions, none of which claimed to be around during the origin of the universe ,

Lil, your first point about all these others are created by man is not a very good one because the God of the bible was created by the minds of men and there is absolutely nothing you can say to prove otherwise. You simply cannot say that other gods who have been written about are created by men but your god who was written about in the bible was not. It doesn't make sense.

2) None of these have ever claimed true diety. On the contrary, the flying spaghetti monster and pink unicorns are admitted inventions to poke fun at God and religion in general.

I have to say this because its been bugging me all through this thread. It isn't diety its deity.

Also you are wrong that other gods have not claimed deity. They have! So have spirit beings who were getting ahead of themselves.

Sirona

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

Sirona

Well folks, if Sirona can prove she wasn't in an altered state when speaking to the spirit beings, and her witnesses were not also in an altered state she has in fact come up with the most compelling evidence.
*standing ovation*

Thanks Tuesday.

It depends what you mean by altered state. It is possible to be in some sort of altered state whilst watching TV!

I need to make the following points:

1. I think that there is a specific state which one has to be in, in order to receive spirit contact. Just purely being in an altered state should not disqualify the experience, if there are other ways to verify. Therefore if I say I met a pink unicorn who spoke to me, someone could say I imagined it. If I say I met some spirit being whose description exactly matched that of someone who has died (or matches the experience of others see point 2) and who gives me information which I couldn't have known previously (see point three) then whether I was in an altered state or not becomes a moot point.

2. If individuals are in that "altered" state of awareness, in a group setting, and they all see a spirit, they would need to separately confirm what exactly they saw (with no previous communication to influence the others).

3. If there is a group situation or not, the spirit being needs to provide some information which could not have been known previously. This is a difficult one because we pick things up subconsiously. Also there is the question of what is specific and what isn't. In my case, cutting a long story short, I saw an image of a gift which had not been given (in detail) which I had never previously seen or heard about and which was discovered in someone's attic hundreds of miles from my home. How I knew about this gift I can only put down to the experience of speaking with my (ex) husband's deceased grandma who told me about it and showed me an image of it.

Sirona