Thanks Jan
I've definately learned something there!
Sirona
Posts by Sirona
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7Blood Part 08 - The Christians and Blood
by JanH inthe christians and blood.
the watctower society agrees that the law of moses no longer applies to christians.
yet it says that this particular rule about not eating blood was repeated to christians in the so-called apostolic decree by the apostolic council in jerusalem.
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Where You "overlooked" for Cong. Priv...
by stevieb1 inpicture the scene:.
you are a young single brother with no other jw family members.
you manage to tot up 90hrs a month in "field service";spend five hours per week preparing your watchtower for the study, however you are not an extremely extrovert person and don't try to "impress" the elders and the co. it seems though that this "spiritual" person never seems to be appointed as a ms or an excesively long time passes by before he does become such.
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Sirona
A married male publisher in our cong was found snogging a sister (not his wife) on numerous occasions. He asked her to run away with him and she refused. He then decided to come clean (because she wouldn't run away with him). The sister had her priviledges removed, he was made a Ministerial Servant!!!!!
The same guy is now up for elder. LOL
Another guy I know does all the hours, all the meetings, all the talks.....and is he MS? nooooo way.
Sirona
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Discussion forum for anything NOT JW related
by Bleep indiscussion forum for anything not jw related.
... apostates are welcome !.
bla bla bla sin oh yes!
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Sirona
Hi Bleep
I love some Jehovahs Witnesses. The ones I love are really nice people.
Sirona (attempting to be a refreshing breeze)
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
Ozzie, mmm interesting. It appears that perhaps the term "this age" may be accurate in describing a period in history perhaps? Nevertheless this translation does contradict any suggestion of the "order of things" being the mosaic law. The plot thickens on this topic it seems!
Pomegranate:
Then why open a topic on the Bible, if you do not believe the Bible?
Well, I am very interested indeed in having knowledge of what the bible actually says. I do not have to believe the bible to discuss it or seek to gain knowledge of it. In fact, as I mentioned in another post, I want to compile a list of scriptural references and thereby form my own opinion of what the bible is actually saying. That does not mean that I will stop being pagan.
If you are not looking, you are hiding.
I dont understand what this means. Please explain.
Sirona
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
He chooses NOT to heal which is just as "active" as healing, with that activity being defined as CHOOSING.
Ok I can accept this in a description of God. However, if I personally do not do something then it isn't always a choice. Sometimes I just don't do something because it never came up, in that sense its passive. God must always make a choice though because he knows everything and therefore will either choose to act or not. So I admit that you are probably right with that view then, in accord with the bible.
It's God's choice and man has no say. He decides right and wrong, good and bad, wheat and weed, light and dark, chosen and unchosen. Who are we to resist His will?
Yes the bible does say that. I do not agree with that personally.
Sirona
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
Chill out - I just took a long time to do the editting on the post - you posted in the meantime, during that time.
LOL, sorry, I'm very tense at the moment.
About gods, yes, I accept that ones general notion of what a god is in the bible is relevant. My idea of what a god is is actually nothing like the bible's idea anyway. The bible sometimes refers to humans as gods doesn't it?
The "of this world" or "of this system" or "of this order" is pretty much all saying "of the way we and the world in general have thought was righteous, or, the standards that we (by our flesh)thought were God rules".
I think that is just speculation. "of this order" could in fact mean a system of rules such as the mosaic law.
About living through flesh, I assume you suggest that this is how they are blinded? that this spirit of fleshliness is actually the spirit of Satan? Interesting point, but I dont see support for it in the bible. Rather, the scriptures quoted in this thread are seemingly in support of the blinding being a veil that "a god " uses in peoples minds.
Sirona
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
Bang, I hope this doesn't sound patronising too, but you missed my point entirely.
Firstly we are talking about the bible, not my opinion of God. I am debating whether 2 Cor 4:4 is referring to Satan or Jehovah. Therefore your comments about how I see gods are irrelevant.
Secondly, your point about "this world" is totally irrelevant. I made the point that the phrase "this order of things" may refer not to "this world" but to the mosaic law at the time of the writing of 2 Corinthians. Therefore the god of the mosaic law (Jehovah) could be the god that this scripture refers to. Talking about the spirit of the world is not relevant to my question.
I asked some questions and you subsequently went back and edited your post to make it look like I'd asked AFTER you posted. From the times on the posting (and your editing) it is clear that I asked and then you went back to edit your original post. Lets just assume that you want to p*ss me off by doing that and get back to the discussion.
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
For the record, you edited that post after I'd asked the questions.
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
Where does it say that, Bang? Also, just because Jesus's kingdom is not of this world, does not mean he (or Jehovah) isn't the God of this world?
Plus, the phrase "this system of things" can be translated "this order of things" so how is that "the world"?
Sirona
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2 Cor 4:4: Jehovah=Satan?
by Sirona ini just can't see the answer to this question.
it may be obvious, so please forgive me if you think i'm silly for asking.. 2 corinthians 4 verse 4 in the nwt:.
"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the christ, who is the image of god, might not shine through".
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Sirona
Bugs: Excellent scriptures to back up the idea! Most especially Romans 11:7,8. One day I will compile a list of scriptural thoughts that contradict JW teachings, so this will be added
Sentinel: Unbelievable that your mother could say those things!!!! It appears to be a JW idea then that God will blind those he doesn't want in "his organisation" Funnily enough, I remember an elder saying that God USES people to bring other people into the org...then he gets rid of the person he used by turning them away (e.g. they were just a tool for God to get someone right-hearted into the org). Urgh it makes me sick when I think of how self righteous they are!
I agree that a LOVING God would not blind people to truth....but honestly the bible's God is not that loving.
Winsome: excellent post! I've printed out what you said so I can digest it further. I did not consider that this may be a special punishment to israel that is an interesting point. Self induced, but followed up by God's judgement. It seems to be a major flaw in JW teaching since they assert that Satan is "a god" and that he is the god of this world. Perhaps Jesus meant something else when he suggested Satan was the "ruler of this world"....maybe he meant that the effects of Satan's sin ruled the world? mmm that is something I will need to consider further.
Pomegranate: I'm not sure that God can be said to be doing something active (e.g. blinding minds) when actually he is being passive (e.g. failing ot heal) Then again, the bible does mention those chosen and those not chosen by God. Interesting perspective.
Plmkrzy: I've enjoyed the book, although I agree that they are simply trying to prove that Jesus wasn't the Son of God. Shame they lose focus.
Bang: Please give scriptural "proof" of your assertions that Satan is the god of this world.
Sirona