the only one i know about is the big jesus in the revelation book.. know of any specific other ones?
i want to show hubby....
Some of the subliminal images in the Watchtower publications are very obvious and cannot be just "accidents".
I remember checking my own copies of the books concerned years ago and being shocked!
I don't think it shows evil influence or anything so dramatic. I think it shows that there are people in the art dept who get a kick out of it.
Sirona
the latest wt issue has on its front page the question 'what does creation reveal about god'?
the articles contain 'evidence' that it's possible to learn more about god's invisible qualities by observing his visible creation, thereby refuting the agnostic argument 'seeing is believing'.
by the way, that's what biologists have been doing for the last couple of centuries but it hasn't brought them closer to theism.
Hamilcarr
So, what's the difference between divinity and humanity apart from the different names... ?
Not much in my opinion!
I believe in a divine force which permeates the whole universe and is also outside of it (I think this is termed panentheism). I think that each human has a divine spark or higher self. Some choose to ignore that part of themselves, some do not.
I strongly believe the idea "as above so below" which suggests that the smallest thing reflects higher truths. Decay and death are required and natural since the clearing away of the old allows for regeneration. The cycles of living and dying throughout nature occur in the material world and in the spiritual world.
Sirona
the latest wt issue has on its front page the question 'what does creation reveal about god'?
the articles contain 'evidence' that it's possible to learn more about god's invisible qualities by observing his visible creation, thereby refuting the agnostic argument 'seeing is believing'.
by the way, that's what biologists have been doing for the last couple of centuries but it hasn't brought them closer to theism.
I'm not a believer in the bible god, but a believer in divinity and an evolving universe...
It is my opinion that the nature of divinity includes death and destruction as natural processes. Many gods are personifications of this aspect of nature (Kali, Morrigan, etc.)
My 2p
Sirona
people like to throw around the cult word when describing the watchtower society.
but look at the definition of "cult" and you will see it applies to any system of thought concieved by an individual or group to control others.
are christians a jesus cult...yes.
YES! They are definately a CULT.
See this page http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult
Here is a snippet from that page:
OTHER IDENTIFICATION MARKS
(a) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to
others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE. e.i. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT -
everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL -
everyone else is in apostasy.
(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse
God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be
THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.
HOW THEY DO THIS
1. Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or
position of authority given by God.
2. They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance
regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and
exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
3. They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members
loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire
calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon;
being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital
part of the mind control process.
4. Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to
the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked);
signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive
methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed;
selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of
their "ministry".
At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take
up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell
literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don't do this. This
gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.
5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its
teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the
group's activities. They will have little or no time to think for
themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is
also a vital part of the mind control process.
6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private
lives of members. This control can be direct through communal
living, or constant and repetitious teaching on "how to be a true
Christian" or "being obedient to leadership". Members will look to
their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
7. Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity
distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.
8. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged.
Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an
emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission.
This is vigilantly maintained.
9. Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in
some way. This could be in the form of "dobbing" on fellow members
(including family) under the guise of looking out for their
"spiritual welfare".
They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or
give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.
10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may
be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that
involve their lives or have signed a "covenant" and feel threatened by
this.
Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by
other members with coercion to get them to return to the
group.
SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-
1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY
They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to
think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what
they are told.
2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY
Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children,
parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.
3. ABUSE OF FINANCES
Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal
groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata,
not because of a lower income level, but because they are always
giving money to the group for some reason.
4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY
Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and
everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or
"unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends;
the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media
- the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any
way see such involvement as a "means to an end".
5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY
The group controls and uses almost all the members time and
energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant
state of mental and physical exhaustion.
6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL
They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and
directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will"
actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it.
This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets
and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through
intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".
Not all other religious groups fit these criteria. I have personally attended churches and other groups who do not require attendance, who do allow people to think for themselves, where there is no negative result of leaving....where donations are accepted but the average donation is £1 per service attended (based on individual choice on how much to donate).
I've been at these churches when someone walks in who hasn't attended in 6 months and people actually go over to them and say "hi its so nice to see you".
Sirona
hi all - it's been a while since i've gotten a chance to sign on and visit you all.
nice to be back.
i wanted to share a story with you - maybe it will help some that are just getting out and going through a rough time.. a good friend of mine came to me today - he and his wife are expecting their first child and just found out it has down's syndrome.
Great post, thanks.
Also I wish your friends well. I'm currently pregnant and decided not to have the down syndrome checks because of the potential worry and risks of the tests (and the chances at our age are slim). We simply decided that even if the child was down's we'd still keep the child.
Sirona
how could her parents not know she was pregnant i wonder?.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=6057161.
.
How AWFUL
I know the girl was young but ....
She must have some kind of mental problem to do what she did. Someone else might have just left the baby somewhere for someone else to look after. She must have something seriously wrong with her to just want to kill it!
At 14 I was quite mature...
Sirona
when i was a teenager, i was told by an elder that because i smiled a lot and was known for my good sense of humor, that i should come across as "more serious".
so before i was appointed a ms, while in my late teens, i transformed myself into a much more "serious" brother.. were you ever told that you needed to work on something that you knew was stoopid?.
Cordelia and I were standing in the hall bitching about some guy who was wierd and he had bad skin ( Ok we were young and what else is there to talk about)....
Nobody heard us....
Then we got counselled cos this guy's wife thought we were staring at her husband (eye'ing him up!) LOL
The elders actually said "we noticed you looking at XXXX at the meeting"....I remember thinking ARE YOU FOR REAL?
Sirona
i mean, i know i'm bitter.. normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.. what i'd give to do the things i was used to.
going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.. a hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me.
i miss her so much.. and what if i'm wrong?.
Vinny,
I enjoyed your post, lots of info!
One thing though....I thought the JWs recently made voting a conscience matter?
Sirona
i mean, i know i'm bitter.. normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.. what i'd give to do the things i was used to.
going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.. a hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me.
i miss her so much.. and what if i'm wrong?.
It is possible to win the battle against alcohol. I know people who have. I hear people say how they don't think about drinking anymore.
So don't see it as an impossible thing. Don't imagine that you'll stop drinking and ALWAYS be miserable.
Biggest step you can make now is seek help from others and don't beat yourself up - because its a long path but a path that you can take and you can win.
Hugs
Sirona
i have stopped.
it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.
it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks
All good questions L&R
I'm not sure.
I don't see god as a giant vending machine in the sky. I do however see "divinity" as existing and connecting us all and I put my grateful thoughts out there because I do believe that appreciating abundance attracts abundance!
Sirona
