Ray, Paco is right. See here: http://atheism.about.com/b/2011/11/22/william-lane-craig-animals-arent-aware-of-their-pain.htm
cognisonance
JoinedPosts by cognisonance
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34
Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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cognisonance
Yep... great way to get the cognitive dissonance flowing. In fact, I still have that issue with eating meat... We share so much in common with other animials. Our limbic systems (areas of the brain that control variety of functions, including emotion, behavior, motivation, long-term memory, and olfaction) are very similar, not just to our closest relatives such as chimps and bonobos, but also even the fly!
Did you know that flies when they get regected sexually, get depressed and go get drunk? Don't believe me? Check this out: Learning From the Spurned and Tipsy Fruit Fly
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult? (alternate title: Balls, Cuts, and Dudes - Oh My!)
by cognisonance inoh my... from their jw.org site:.
no, jehovahs witnesses are not a cult.. .
nice rebuttal to the question.
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cognisonance
Of course we all know the answer to the question. I was just do a breakdown of their answer, and I'll admit, I was being a bit snarky as well. But for some people this may be new to them. Not everyone on this site has been here a while.
This post was more about how evasive the answer is.
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult? (alternate title: Balls, Cuts, and Dudes - Oh My!)
by cognisonance inoh my... from their jw.org site:.
no, jehovahs witnesses are not a cult.. .
nice rebuttal to the question.
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cognisonance
Oh my... from their jw.org site:
No, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a cult.
Nice rebuttal to the question. So the public then should just take your word for it... Let me ask another? Do you allow an environment where pedophiles can keep harming children? No? Okay thanks for telling me I feel so much better now...
Rather, we are Christians who do our best to follow the example set by Jesus Christ and to live by his teachings.
Please look up the term "non sequitur." Too much work you say? here I'll do it for you... Now hopefully you will not answer questions this way in the future. You're welcome!
What is a cult?
Oh, you want to define it I see. Let me guess your going to use the 2nd definition on Urban dictionary (something about balls, cuts, and dudes)? Shouldn't we first inquire what the asker of the question meant by the term cult? Specificity is important you know.
The term “cult” means different things to different people. However, consider two common perceptions regarding cults and why those perceptions don’t apply to us. [... 1) blah blah blah 2) okay... and?]
Okay so you just weeded out 2 of the MANY definitions for the word cult, and by the way what happens if you modify the last definition to be plural... "Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human leader[s]. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human[s] as their leader[s]." Ah... but you wouldn't choose that definition. Clever you huh?
But I'm pretty sure that you forgot to consider several other definitions. You know, the ones about groups that control access to information, develop an us versus them attitude, punish and discourage doubts and questions, claims a special, exalted status for itself, its leaders, uses guilt to control members, encourages or requires socialization with only other members, ask members to be ready to obey any direction even if it doesn't make sense... What about definitions that define a cult with these concepts. I’m pretty sure you missed addressing those. Hmm… I wonder why.
Far from being a dangerous cult, Jehovah’s Witnesses... helped many people to overcome harmful addictions , such as the abuse of drugs and alcohol. In addition, we conduct literacy classes around the world, helping thousands learn to read and write. And we are actively involved in disaster relief.
Wait a minute, we weren't done! You still haven't answered the question. But I see deflection is what you prefer doing.
Do you smell that? Something smells really fishy...
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I don't want to be right!
by cognisonance inor judging by the url, the alternate title would have been: why do people persist in believing things that just arent true?.
key snippets:.
one thing he learned early on is that not all errors are created equal.
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cognisonance
For the JW's though this is because their ideology (sense of self) requires believing in whatever the GB says is true as the only appropriate course of action, otherwise they risk being eaten by worms at Armageddon.
If you could somehow separate facts from their ideology they could be helped, but the cult seems to be nearly perfectly impervious to such efforts to separate ideology from facts (and non-facts). You can't talk about facts in isolation with them.
They have redefined what the word “true” and “accurate” mean.
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The dumest thing an elder ever said to me..
by new hope and happiness inconversation with an elder...i said " did you watch due south yesterday" and he said " ive got far more important things to do".
i mean that comment of his got me to thinking and wondering, and made me see he was missing out on living..and i think that comment was the straw that broke this boys faith, and started my i dont want to be a witness anymore.
kind of wierd how a simple question opened my eyes.. and now as i write this i am watching " the rebel" a 1950s western series, and its great and its even better my 9 year old is watching with me..and there is nothing more important than being happy.. .
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cognisonance
For me it was this when I said I had doubts about the teachings rejecting evolution:
Well even the "world" has the creation museum in Kentucky, so this shows that we aren't alone in thinking evolution did not occur...
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I don't want to be right!
by cognisonance inor judging by the url, the alternate title would have been: why do people persist in believing things that just arent true?.
key snippets:.
one thing he learned early on is that not all errors are created equal.
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cognisonance
Or judging by the URL, the alternate title would have been: Why do people persist in believing things that just arent true?
Key snippets:
One thing he learned early on is that not all errors are created equal. Not all false information goes on to become a false belief—that is, a more lasting state of incorrect knowledge—and not all false beliefs are difficult to correct. Take astronomy. If someone asked you to explain the relationship between the Earth and the sun, you might say something wrong: perhaps that the sun rotates around the Earth, rising in the east and setting in the west. A friend who understands astronomy may correct you. It’s no big deal; you simply change your belief.
But imagine living in the time of Galileo, when understandings of the Earth-sun relationship were completely different, and when that view was tied closely to ideas of the nature of the world, the self, and religion. What would happen if Galileo tried to correct your belief? The process isn’t nearly as simple. The crucial difference between then and now, of course, is the importance of the misperception. When there’s no immediate threat to our understanding of the world, we change our beliefs. It’s when that change contradicts something we’ve long held as important that problems occur.
The campaign against smoking is one of the most successful public-interest fact-checking operations in history. But, if smoking were just for Republicans or Democrats, change would have been far more unlikely. It’s only after ideology is put to the side that a message itself can change, so that it becomes decoupled from notions of self-perception.
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How *exactly* you and your income are being affected by inequality.
by cognisonance ini found this link really interesting: inequality.is and associated with the excellent robert reich documentary: inequality for all.. .
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cognisonance
Why are people mad when other people work really really hard and are sucessful ?
No one is mad that people work hard and reap the benefits of their hard work. People are upset about the inequality that exists becuase of factors beyond their control (e.g. luck, rigged policies that benefit the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the poor and middle class, lack of actual equal oppurtunity, corruption, etc).
The weathy aren't were they are just beacuse they worked "really really hard." Many a poor person also works "really really hard" and doesn't obtain the same success. Again this is due to factors beyond their control, not their work eithic or abilities. True some people don't work hard and these types are not limited to just the poor. Likewise, some wealthy individuals inherited their money, not earn it.
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How *exactly* you and your income are being affected by inequality.
by cognisonance ini found this link really interesting: inequality.is and associated with the excellent robert reich documentary: inequality for all.. .
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cognisonance
If you tax the top earners too much, who is going to open the new businesses to employ people? Read Atlas Shrugged.
I don't think concepts like rational self-interests that objectivism and libertarianism tout works (we humans are often irrational).
But instead of exhanging opinions I'll ask you this:
- You are implying that few (none?) will be willing to open businesses and employ people if top earners were taxed "too much" (if by too much we mean 1950s levels). Well who then opened businesses and employed people in the 1950s?
It isn't business owners that "create jobs." It's the middle class and poor that are the job creators as they create the demand. When they have healthy income levels they fuel the economy. Supress the poor and middle class, then there is less people able to purchase the products and services that businesses provide. A healthy middle class and poor is a healthy economy.
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How *exactly* you and your income are being affected by inequality.
by cognisonance ini found this link really interesting: inequality.is and associated with the excellent robert reich documentary: inequality for all.. .
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cognisonance
Typo: Meant $6,000,000 not $2 million rather...
we need better wages for the middle class?
we need unions to have a stronger say in the workforce.
Yes he was suggesting this.
Some of the suggestions (including taxes, so sorry about that, he did mention that, at least on the website) can be found here:
