Posts by cognisonance

82

Awake January 2015: How did life begin? - More misquotes

by Designer Stubble in

[quote]some might assume that a scientifically-minded person would pick evolution and that a religious person would pick creation.

but not always.. rama singh, professor of biology at canadas mcmaster university, says: the opposition to evolution goes beyond religious fundamentalism and includes a great many people from educated sections of the population.[/quote].

end-of-quote in awake.

cognisonance

Here is the full paper (html, pdf) that quote comes from.

7

The emptiness of science may explain the rise of fundamentalism...

by cognisonance in

neurophilosopher, thomas metzinger says in his book:.

the ego tunnel: thescience of the mind and the myth of the self.

the ego evolved as an instrument in social cognition, and one of its greatest functional advantages was that it allowed us to read the minds of other animals or conspecifics and then to deceive them.

cognisonance

Neurophilosopher, Thomas Metzinger says in his Book:

THE EGO TUNNEL: THESCIENCE OF THE MIND AND THE MYTH OF THE SELF

The Ego evolved as an instrument in social cognition, and one of its greatest functional advantages was that it allowed us to read the minds of other animals or conspecifics — and then to deceive them. Or deceive ourselves. Since our inbuilt existential need for full emotional and physical security can never be fulfilled, we have a strong drive toward delusion and bizarre belief systems. Psychological evolution endowed us with the irresistible urge to satisfy our emotional need for stability and emotional meaningfulness by creating metaphysical worlds and invisible persons. Whereas spirituality might be defined as seeing what is — as letting go of the search for emotional security — religious faith can be seen as an attempt to cling to that search by redesigning the Ego Tunnel. Religious belief is an attempt to endow your life with deeper meaning and embed it in a positive metacontext — it is the deeply human attempt to finally feel at home. It is a strategy to outsmart the hedonic treadmill. On an individual level, it seems to be one of the most successful ways to achieve a stable state — as good as or better than any drug so far discovered. Now science seems to be taking all this away from us. The emerging emptiness may be one reason for the current rise of religious fundamentalism, even in secular societies.

This quote helped me realize why JWs reject evolution so strongly. The stronger the evidence for it, the deeper they reject it. If religious belief in general is this strong, JW beliefs are on steroids.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

Ask him what family business really means not the WT interpretation. Isn't Health, education, marriage, divorce, grandchildren, financial issues family business? At least in the real world.

The only problem with that is I recall one of the last circuit assemblies I went to a bethel speaker said (paraphrased to the best of my memory): "The governing body gave us some consideration with regards talking to disfellowshipped family members realizing that we might need to attend to necessary family business at times. Many brothers and sisters take advantage of this categorizing normal conversation as 'necessarily family business.' The slave provided this provision as a courtesy but it isn't anywhere in the bible. Ultimately it's your relationship that is at stake with Jehovah and you should think hard about any contact you have with DF'd family." In more or less words he said it could be the GB was overstepping in providing that. He was trying to inspire fear.

I don't know if they heard that talk or not, or if this admonition is endemic in the org. I don't know how open he'd be to redefining that definition. Worth a try perhaps.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

It's hard to help when you don't know what they need help with. They got into a car accident, though no injuries other than being scared, and I wasn't aware of it until months later (my dad only told me when I came to pick up something). My brother, never officially DF'd is always in need of help (he went thru years of addiction and has trouble holding jobs among other problems). He is one avenue that I can assist my parents with. At times, me helping him puts me in a position to talk with my parents. For example, he crashed at my place for a few days and together we meet my Mom to help get my him some needed items. My mom was very cold and barely would talk or look at me. However, when it was time for me and my brother to leave, she turns to me and says, "I just have to..." and then gives me a hug with tears streaming down her face she says, "I love you so much!"

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

ToesUp,Thanks for the encouragement!

ctrwtf, That's an interesting idea. The last time I talked along those lines it went like this (from one my previous links). I then gave up and changed the subject:

Me: I don’t know how much time I have left; will you two be here 10 years from now? 15? 20? Since I’m not coming back to the religion it pains me to think I won’t be able to have a close relationship with either of you and to enjoy the little time together we have left.

Mom: Well, you can do that, all you have to do is just return to Jehovah and we can be a family again.

Me: But that’s the problem, I don’t believe the same things they do. I don’t believe in God. There is nothing for me to return to. Do you expect me to fake it and come back to the religion and lie to myself to deny myself of who I am and what I’ve come to learn? I’d be deceiving myself if I did that.

Mom: We don’t want you to come back just for us, that would not be the right motive.

Me: What am I supposed to do then? What if I was raised in an Amish family? If we all were Amish? If I left, I’d be shunned too, simply for not believing the same way you guys do and you also couldn’t talk to me. They too probably wouldn’t want their son or daughter to return just to be with them, but for them him/her to come back to God.

Dad: That’s not the same thing. We’re God’s organization, they are false religion.

Me: I guess what I’m trying to say is, why does religion have to come between parents and their children? It’s frustrating and painful not to have you two in my life.

Mom: You do realize it’s hard for us to.

Me: Yes I do, I know you are hurting, I’m hurting, and my friends are hurting. I am very distraught that everyone is in so much pain.

Dad: Your friends know you care, we know you care.

Me: Thanks Dad, but this all seems so unnecessary. This just needless pain and agonizing for all involved.

Dad: That is true. It is needless. This is why if everyone did things Jehovah’s way we wouldn’t have to go thru such heartbreaking situations.

Me: Dad, I know you aren’t going to like me saying this, but how is that not blaming the victim?

Dad & Mom: You aren’t a victim.

Dad: We did not leave you. We were always here for you. You are the one that left us by your choice of actions and attitude that lead to you being kicked out of the religion.

Me: Dad, while I do regret that I left the religion for dishonorable reasons (adultery) that has nothing to do with my decision not to return. In fact, I wish I would have just left the religion by disassociating myself for disbelief instead. But that would not change how you view the situation would it?

Dad: No, it wouldn’t

Me: But to my point, how is this my fault? The fact is I cannot come back to the religion because I just don’t believe in it anymore.

Mom: You keep saying religion. It isn’t religion you’ve turned your back on, it’s Jehovah. We just want you to come back. I pray to him every day that you will return.

Me: Mom, I’m right here in front of you now. I want to be a part of your life, I want you to be a part of mine.

Mom: I’m not saying I want you to return to me, I want you to return to Jehovah. That’s the only thing I want.

Me: Mom, I know you think it is in my best interest to be part of this religion, that my life is on the line. I respect that. But I’m sure the Amish mother also prays form her child to return to God, and thus the Amish faith as well.

Mom: I don’t want to argue with you.

Me: Okay mom, I don’t want to either. I just feel like my family is being held ransom from me. If I want them to be in my life I have to return to this organization. I feel, from my perspective that I’m being extorted in a way.

Dad: You do know we feel differently.

Me: Yes, of course and that’s why I said this is how it makes me feel. I just don’t understand how this is loving for this rule to be in place where parents and children cannot spend time together simply because they don’t believe the same way (just as with the Amish).

Dad: This isn’t a rule. This is what God tells us is the best thing to do. Again, the Amish are completely different than our situation.

Me: I just bring that up because I recently watched the movie, “The Shunning,” about this Amish girl who left her faith, for good reasons unlike me mind you, but still was shunned and lost her family and friends. I found it very hard to watch and saw a lot of parallels.

Mom: I would find that hard to watch too.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

Find a healing place and positive people. I know what it is like to be held away by those you thought cared about you. I go to a good therapist (someone to share with and to validate my feelings) and have reached out to new people.
Part of the reason may be you are too busy to do this so far but keep it a goal.

Blonde,

Thanks for responding to my thread. I've enjoyed your posted on this forum. As regards healing. I'm doing quite well. I've been out of this religion for 3 years now (or something like that, seems forever now). I saw a psychologist for over a year to help me thru this (and a divorce).

I have made new close friends and "family" if you will. My life has moved on in many ways. University and Research is a recent endeavor for me. I was much less busy my first couple years out of the cult.

I also have family, mostly on my dad's side that are not part of the religion. Still, I nonetheless still care for my parents. I know they care about me. They are just held captive by the cult. I can see every time we have the chance to talk the positive feelings they have outweigh any fear or guilt (though fear no doubt prevent many opportunities for them to talk to me). It is, in part, for this reason that I keep trying and will not let go of them.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

I didn't know about that elder's manual. My dad does follow technicalities, even if he doesn't think he does. So it would seem likely that trying to have a logical discussion about his behavior towards me might backfire then.

By the way, a few days ago I emailed my mom and invited her out to lunch since she works close by to me. I tell her I love her and was thinking about her. That as I get older I long for getting to know my parents better. I tell her I have no idea what is going on in her life right now. What has she done? Seen? Learned? Been? Thinking? How is her health? etc. I tell her that I'm extending an open invitation to her and will always be there for her if she wants to talk. So far no response. It's also why I want to reach out to my dad. Before, I reached out to both of them at the same time (visiting unannounced). But I thought about approaching them separately.

My other idea is to just keep showing up unannounced every 3 months or so. But I would suspect they would stop opening the door to me if I keep that up. Visiting once every 9-12 months seems just enough that they wonder if it's some "urgent" reason I'm visiting them.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

As regards the faux returning option, I don't feel it was a condescending suggestion. I welcome all ideas. My response was more rhetorical. That simply isn't an option for me.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

Blonde,

Yeah I realize any attempt probably won't work. Being kind and thoughtful is all I've been doing. But it just isn't enough, I fear with his advancing age and health he may not have many more years. The last conversation I had with them (not in the supplemental links mentioned above) was me calling and telling them I had something to give them and wanted to drop it off. I bought some gifts for them out of the blue and printed and mounted a 12x18 inch photograph I recently took at a location we often had family vacations.

They let me come and we talked for hours and they enjoyed their gifts. But... they thought my main reason for coming would have qualified for "necessary family business" they thought I was coming to say I was engaged or something. I'm not sure where they got this from, perhaps as a way to rationalize accepting my visit? Once they found out this was purely a friendly visit with gifts, it didn't take long for the guilt to hit them, that their technicality didn't exist and therefore out with the tears and the "We just can't keep doing this" nonsense.

47

I'm at a loss at how to get thru to my parents. I fear they will die before they will stop shunning me.

by cognisonance in

all i want is this: for us to be a family, to spend time together enjoying life.

i don't wish to debate about their beliefs when together.

they can remain jws for all i care.

cognisonance

How do I pull of the facade of re-in-statement where I'm a known atheist? The elders won't attempt calling on me to see if I want to come come back. Besides, I work full time, attend university part time, do research par time. I'm very very busy. How do I find time to go thru all the hoops required to fake a turnaround, let alone I think I'd vomit trying to do so?