Posts by cognisonance

66

Huffington Post: When Is A Religion 'Extremist'? [Food for thought!]

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/when-is-a-religion-extremist_us_590de8e3e4b046ea176aeb98.

tim rymel, m.ed.. governments who support “religious freedom” over the equal human rights and dignity of others condone, and even endorse discrimination.. 05/06/2017 11:27 am et | photo – flickr/ justin kern .

government endorsement of any religious ideology creates religious extremism.

cognisonance

Chill Simon! Your responses on this site come off crass and pedantic more often than not. I used to enjoy this site, but I find your behavior and attitude to often be so demeaning to others. Why do this?

18

Violent Games/Movie

by Saethydd in

all through my childhood, i was told about the evils of violence (and magic) in entertainment, i doubt i could count the number of movies and video games i wasn't allowed to enjoy for that very reason.

i did always watch movies and play video games with a certain amount of violence in them, but i was careful to keep it at the teen/pg-13 rating.. in the last year or so though i've started trying out games like skyrim, fallout 3, and thief.

(since i still live with my parents i'm careful about where and when i play them.

cognisonance

I think Finkelstein is correct here. I too researched this topic and came across a meta analysis on the topic that essentially came to this same conclusion. No effect of on the vast majority, but damaging to unstable personalities. But I also recall another meta analysis claiming there is an effect on everyone, not just unstable personalities. This was many years ago. Seems there is more recent research on this topic:

Seems looking up the references in this report would be a good place to start.

5

Ex-JW's on NPR

by Mum in

jw
friends

yesterday i was listening to the radio at work as usual.

i listen to npr (national public radio) on most days.

there was a report about some ex-jw's who were "daring to dream" again.

cognisonance

Found it. It was on All Things Considered (Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses).

29

The true cost of being raised as a witness

by stuckinarut2 in

how do you view your upbringing as a witness?.

most of us who were raised as witnesses would appreciate that some aspects of our upbringing were ok. a foundation and measure of stability came with it.. but, it struck me too, that we also lost so very much!

and we lost a lot of potential.. by this i mean, we need to look at not just what we lost, or what was deprived of us, but what that ended up costing us as adults into the future.. if i take $10 from you, you have lost just $10.. but, if you were going to use that $10 to buy something that would end up earning you $1000, then i actually took $1000 from you!.

cognisonance

I think that being raised as a JW generally tends to restrict our opportunities economically, just like being raised poor, as a minority (discrimination), to single parent households, or in a low GDP-country. It sucks, especially if your upbringing includes many of these categories. I still think I was relatively lucky as I only had the JW-factor to deal with.

I did go to college, but just to get a 2-year degree and much of that was earned while I was still in high school with a program that double counted college and HS credits. I always wanted to be a scientist even as a little kid, so I regret not going farther in my education, that is I wish I would have spent most of my 20s in college. I didn't leave the JWs until I was 28 and instead pioneered during most of my 20s. I could have had a PhD by now, but instead I'm working full time and going to school part-time and still have a couple years left to finish my undergrad. If I pursue a PhD I'll be doing so in my mid-thirties and would need to incur great opportunity costs from lost wages (I have a good paying job now already). Or... I'd end up spending 10 years doing a PhD part time. Neither sounds ideal.

So in my case, the cost is not so much in terms of lost income/savings potential, or never getting an education, but one more so of just wasting the first decade of my life knocking on doors and making it harder to do what I really want to do in life since my peers (among those that love science) all have a 10-year head start (and lower salary requirements).

14

Disfellowshipped 2x adultry divorce remarried getting divorce to write my wrong

by IDontKnowMe77 in

this is bit hard for me but im lost and don't know what to do.. 2010-married to a disfellowship person after only knowing him 3 months i began studying baptized few months later and he was reinstated same year.. i committed adultry 3-4 times in first 2 years of marriage he forgave me.

he was a recovering alcoholic and fell off wagon hard when i tried to fix my wrong it was way out of hand he moved in drug addicts in the home we fought constantly i tried to get personal studies with a sister to keep going but i failed at that and left my husband i left for another man 2 in half years later im looking to divorce because well what goes around comes around and he committed adultery on me .

i got what was coming for thinking i would live happy ever after.

cognisonance

Welcome to this forum. It sounds like you have been through a massive emotional rollercoaster. I'm sorry you've been dealing with all of this. However, a few observations:

As hard is it might be, don't let guilt drive your decisions. Just because you feel somewhat responsible doesn't mean getting back into a relationship that had problems in the past will be a good idea. There are probably reasons why you cheated, that is to say, problems in the relationship that preceded the cheating. This does not mean you should never try to repair relationships but think hard before you do something like that.
Relationship problems are 1000x harder to deal with when you involve the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. This forum is full of people that have had some very painful experiences with the group. You might want to check out JWFacts.com
I'd recommend checking this book out at the library or buying a copy: Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships

80

The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

cognisonance

Regarding the disturbing PEW study the OP pointed out. I found a relevant article, Bill Maher and Sam Harris’ proof is wrong: Their argument is based on an untrustworthy poll, where it brings up an important point:

Am I saying that Maher and Harris are right in asserting that Muslims in general—or in other words, in their majority—hold savagely violent, intolerant and misogynistic views? That would be the case if I trusted the Pew poll. But I don’t. What I am questioning here is not the methodology of the respected research Institute, but rather the genuineness of the answers provided by many of the 38,000 individuals it surveyed. Just picture the typical polling interview. Imagine you live in a country where Islam is the religion of the State, where criticizing the religion (let alone leaving it) is a criminal offense, where the educational system and the pervasive state media gang up every day to hammer that Islam is the highest moral norm ever—where, hell, even the opposition (mostly made of Islamist groups) does nothing but double down on religious intransigence… And here comes the Pew pollster, a total stranger with a list of disturbing questions pertaining to religion—questions to which the wrong answers can get you in trouble in many ways… Not the best conditions to conduct a credible opinion poll.
Polls, of course, are anonymous, and trained pollsters have their ways to fabricate empathy, including asking the interviewees if they had a good day before engaging them on more serious matters. But as nice as a warming-up chitchat might be, it simply cannot fend off the self-preservation instinct built over a lifetime’s experience of psychological pressure. Of course, the extent of the pressure (which itself depends on the extent to which religion is used as a political tool for social control) varies from one Muslim country to another. But then, so do the answers. While the Pew numbers indicate a high prevalence of the opinion that Sharia should be the law of the land in countries where Islam is the religion of the State (91 percent in Iraq, 83 percent in Morocco, 74 percent in Egypt…), the rate drops to 12 percent in Turkey, where secularism is a forefront constitutional principle. In other words, the more the questioned citizens are coerced into religiosity, the more likely they are to pick the safest answers—those consistent with what they were force-fed about religion since they were kids—when a pollster comes around.

So are Muslims in the US and other secularized countries lying about their disapproval of Sharia? Or that the Muslims under Sharia are lying about their support of it? Which seems more plausible? I'm inclined to think the latter.

80

The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

cognisonance

ILoveTTATT2,

Thanks for the PEW states and this thread. This is interesting.

Yesu... thanks for the details about the Hadith vs the Quran. I've never even heard of the Hadith or remember reading anything from the Quran. However, I'd take that video with a grain of salt, as it is using propaganda techniques and looking up CBN on wikipedia reveals:

The Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) is an American Christian-oriented religious television network and production company. Founded by televangelist Pat Robertson

11

Close, Critical Analysis of "Should Others Make Decisions for Us"

by cognisonance in

should others make decisions for us?.

) we should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us.

rather, we should personally learn what is right in god’s eyes and choose to do it.. how might we give in to the danger of letting others choose for us?

cognisonance

I just feel so bad for my family. The concept of illusionary freewill takes on a whole new meaning when applied to them. My parents think their "choice" to shun me is doing "what's right in god's eyes" and thus a "wise, right" choice. Their decision comes with great emotional cost to them. They've told me it's so unnatural for them to want to do it, but they must put [blind] faith in Jehovah that it is the correct thing to do (read: it feels wrong to them). Right is wrong and wrong is right. They are captives of a concept, coercively persuaded, and in dire fear something vile will happen if they make decisions of their own!

11

Close, Critical Analysis of "Should Others Make Decisions for Us"

by cognisonance in

should others make decisions for us?.

) we should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us.

rather, we should personally learn what is right in god’s eyes and choose to do it.. how might we give in to the danger of letting others choose for us?

cognisonance

@sparrowdown, I agree with your contribution. Of course the sentiment "I don't take blood because the WT says so" is 100% how JWs make their decisions by delegation. What you point out is they are being told how to frame their own thinking process, as a way to sound less fanatical to outsiders.

11

Close, Critical Analysis of "Should Others Make Decisions for Us"

by cognisonance in

should others make decisions for us?.

) we should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us.

rather, we should personally learn what is right in god’s eyes and choose to do it.. how might we give in to the danger of letting others choose for us?

cognisonance

I came across the text below in a search inspired by my curiosity about the current drivel my parents, cousins, nephews, uncles, and aunts are subjected to by this cult. First I'd like you to read the passage without my comments (if you can manage to stomach doing so):

SHOULD OTHERS MAKE DECISIONS FOR US?
The above-mentioned examples [primarily about Israel's choice between Jehovah and Bali] convey to us a clear lesson. It is up to each of us to make decisions, and the wise, right choices are based on sound Scriptural knowledge. Galatians 6:5 reminds us: “Each one will carry his own load of responsibility.” (Ftn.) We should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us. Rather, we should personally learn what is right in God’s eyes and choose to do it.
How might we give in to the danger of letting others choose for us? Peer pressure could sway us to make a bad decision. (Prov. 1:10, 15) Still, no matter how others try to pressure us, it is our responsibility to follow our Bible-trained conscience. In many respects, if we let others make our decisions, we are essentially deciding to “follow them.” It is still a choice, but a potentially disastrous one.

[Source: March 2017 Study Watchtower]

Now for some analysis with the following conventions:

Bold: good advice
Underlined italics: ironically preventing the reader from heading the advice

It is up to each of us to make decisions, and the wise, right choices are based on sound Scriptural knowledge.

Gobsmacking doublethink! The reader is supposed to have the autonomy to make her own decisions (which by definition includes making decisions on what choices are considered to be wise and right). Yet, she is being told what type of choices should be made. Looking closer, they (~~manipulative fucking assholes,~~ the JW Governing Body) qualify the type of choices as based on "sound Scriptural knowledge." So they say decisions shouldn't be made based on just knowledge, or based on the bible, but only based on the intersection of the two and then the subset that is considered sound. While this appears nebulous, it is of course nothing more than newspeak for "what they say the bible says."

We should not give someone else the responsibility to make decisions for us. Rather, we should personally learn what is right in God’s eyes and choose to do it.

Again the reader is advised to not let others make decisions for them. So why are the writers then telling them what they should do? Wouldn't doing what is right in some god's eyes delegate the reader's decision making process on to someone else? It matters not if that someone else is the god they claim to worship or collectively the JW leaders or the group as a whole. The irony in these statements is hard to ignore.

If we let others make our decisions, we are essentially deciding to “follow them.” It is still a choice, but a potentially disastrous one.

Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves in following the bible, following their governing body, following Jehovah, following Jesus. Follow, follow, follow - Facepalm! All of this epitomizes letting others make decisions for the reader.

Disastrous indeed.