did you see the post on reddit?
unconfirmed naturally and just a rumour but at at one assembly this week it was announced that the 6 members of the gb send their love.. .
there are 7 members of the gb.. .
@OneEyedJack...I made the opening post in full disclosure that it was a rumour on Reddit unconfirmed.
My post was to discuss what effect it would have on dubs still in if it were true.
I even post in my opening post that I suspect it is not true...
How clear do you want me to be?
did you see the post on reddit?
unconfirmed naturally and just a rumour but at at one assembly this week it was announced that the 6 members of the gb send their love.. .
there are 7 members of the gb.. .
Well we all knew it wasn't true but in light of Tony Tightpants rants it may come true in the future!
did you see the post on reddit?
unconfirmed naturally and just a rumour but at at one assembly this week it was announced that the 6 members of the gb send their love.. .
there are 7 members of the gb.. .
Did you see the post on Reddit? Unconfirmed naturally and just a rumour but at at one assembly this week it was announced that the 6 members of the GB send their love.
There are 7 members of the GB.
Someone posted that they heard a member of the GB was disfellowshipped.
Now I propose none of this is true but if it was what would the result be to still-in dubs?
i was talking to a jw a short time ago and it emerged in conversation that he believed in the literal truth of the bible's first book, genesis.. no great surprise there, but he said something pertinent, he said, "if you don't, then the whole of our belief falls apart".. i was wondering if this may be of use to those who are endeavouring to "wake up" jw family or friends.
a proper examination of genesis could be encouraged in a gentle way, raising questions the j.w's must answer, ( you may have to insist they answer them, not shove them aside as they love to do ), and eventually they will have to get to the point, if they are at all honest, that genesis is simply not literal truth.. then, their whole body of belief is undermined.. simples !.
well, the idea is, the execution may be impossible, but i just thought the idea may be helpful ?.
I've used the "Genesis" approach with my still-in wife...as I come across more books and websites showing humans are older than 6,000 years on this planet I share them with her and say nothing about the WT...then after a while she asked me if all these sources say we have been on this planet for more than 6,000 years then she has to doubt the WT and Genesis...bingo.
hello friends,.
it has been a while for me since i last posted.
i've been busy getting some degrees, now working on my doctorate.
And that statement cannot be true....the men may be imperfect and say a swear by accident or look at a womans boobies and get aroused but when they come together as the Faithful & Discreet Slave or the Governing Body, and IF they are indeed under God's direction then they can never ever be wrong in what they say and print.
Only IF they are saying or printing things that does not have God's backing can they be wrong and that is what we see ergo they cannot be a " perfect organization, run by imperfect people ".
this is my own experience so i'll share it in that it might help others.
this may not work for others but it seems to be working for me.. .
a little background...i'm happily married and 3 years ago i was an elder and my wife was a pioneer, we have 3 kids.
I think Oubliette has misunderstood me?
In no way do I think "So either God is the author and is teaching us wrong things and then corrects it or the men teach wrong things and Jehovah corrects it." is true from either point of view.
I agree with Oubliette in that men make things up and Jehovah has nothing to do with it because I don't believe in any god...
But my two fold point that I mention is from the point of view as a still-in JW.
They are the ones that has to believe either "So either God is the author and is teaching us wrong things and then corrects it or the men teach wrong things and Jehovah corrects it."
Once you use that logical thought and get the person to eventually wake up they THEN believe as Oubliette says "Men teach wrong things and Jehovah (God) has nothing to do with any of it."
But a still-in dub cannot get to that conclusion without first debunking in their minds that the GB are under God's direction hence what I post is the first step, the conclusion Oubliette posts is another step after that...
Does that make sense?
My wife is just realising that perhaps the GB are not under God's direction but she is not at the point where she thinks men make up stuff and there is either no god or a god has nothing to do with it.
this is my own experience so i'll share it in that it might help others.
this may not work for others but it seems to be working for me.. .
a little background...i'm happily married and 3 years ago i was an elder and my wife was a pioneer, we have 3 kids.
redvip2000...you are right and i fully agree with you, many dubs cannot process the logical steps I outlined...yet my wife, who is not logically thinking, was introduced a year or so ago to these points and like you say dismissed them.
But as recent new light or crazy events like tight pants tonys talk occur she remembers the point...and at some point it makes the impression and gets through the permafrost...
Thus what I find in my experience is whilst they may be dismissed...we are planting seeds that may come to fruition when the GB changes things...
this is my own experience so i'll share it in that it might help others.
this may not work for others but it seems to be working for me.. .
a little background...i'm happily married and 3 years ago i was an elder and my wife was a pioneer, we have 3 kids.
Thanks folks...
I may add a few other things that are vital...love. Dubs associate being a JW as being the most loveliest, perfect people in the world. Thus when I left I made it my goal to show that was not the case. I love my wife and kids and have made a real effort to show this in all aspects of life in the last 3 years.
This has resulted in that our happiness has grown even though I am no longer a witness.
By being patient, by being loving, by not arguing when we do discuss things, by comprimising when I can (I take my family to assemblies since it is a lot for one parent to look after 3 kids etc) I feel this has shown my wife that JW = true love aint really so...that and the fact that her cong has really not supported her that much since I faded.
So a lot of love and patience...drip feed good logical points...I'm still far away from getting her out but a swe all know when you go down that road of realising that the GB are just men, you can't come back up that road.
this is my own experience so i'll share it in that it might help others.
this may not work for others but it seems to be working for me.. .
a little background...i'm happily married and 3 years ago i was an elder and my wife was a pioneer, we have 3 kids.
This is my own experience so I'll share it in that it might help others. This may not work for others but it seems to be working for me.
A little background...I'm happily married and 3 years ago I was an elder and my wife was a pioneer, we have 3 kids. 3 years ago after a year of being "mentally out" after much research I confessed to this and then I faded.
We are still happy and my wife accepted it.
Over the last 3 years we have had little discussions on it as it can cause tension but in the little conversations we have had I have drip fed little bits of info. That, it seems, came to fruition just recently.
I'm a logically person...I see things a lot in black and white which can be good and bad. 1 + 1 = 2 and that's it thus this logically approach helped me deconstruct in my brain that the GB are not being directed by God and once I clocked that then the whole belief system they propose came tumbling down.
The key for me was to prove that the GB can be in no way appointed to represent God and that is easy what with jwfacts.com, Cedars Blog and especially Don Cameron's excellent book Captives to a Concept.
But to help my wife realize this is not so easy, you can't force logical points down someones throat and make them see that the GB cannot be in God's hands.
So here is the logic I used. My wife is not overly smart intellectually but not dumb either, she is not overly logical but is not overly emotional and just this week she grasped this point and this is the point I want to share that may help others.
When the GB release a directive/prophecy/explanation/counsel either one of two things must be true. That God is the author of it or he allows the GB to suggest it and if it needs correcting Jehovah will do so.
If the first point is true, that Jehovah is the author of all the points the GB release and that the GB are simply mouthpieces then why has their been a lot of things that need revising or have been wrong? God is a god of truth not of falsehood and nowhere in the bible does God teach a wrong teaching and then correct it later when he is the author.
If this point is considered true then I want nothing to do with that God. We understand God may progressively reveal things but never ever would He get things wrong and then correct it.
If the second point is true and God allows the GB to suggest things and then God later corrects it if it is wrong then why did it take God 12 years to correct the disfellowshipping of Organ Transplants (banned in 1969...allowed in 1981) when that 12 years of wrong teaching cost lives? Ditto for blood fractions which only were allowed in the early 2000's. If this point is true and this is the way the GB works, that they suggest what Jehovah means and if they need correcting He will then how can the GB ever ask us to be 100% loyal to them and do what the 15th of November 2013 Watchtower asks us to do and I quote: "All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."
The GB cannot ask that if they are getting things wrong and Jehovah needs to correct them. If this point is considered true then in reality we are following men and the bible warns to not put your trust in princes or the son of man (Psalms 146:3).
So either God is the author and is teaching us wrong things and then corrects it or the men teach wrong things and Jehovah corrects it. Either way...I cannot trust my life with either of those options.
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As I say my still-in wife has started to doubt, she mentioned the above point is grating on her mind to the point she is questioning it. Whilst very exciting for me I thought that I would share that this simple two-fold scenario points out that in no way can anyone follow or trust what the GB say.
I'm open to comments and suggestions.
"it's the intent that counts not the result.".
i have been out of the jw organization for some 22 years now and i sometimes get a reminding jolt out the hoops that some will jump through to make their religion make sense to them.
the first line in this post is what a jw on the street here in salinas told me on saturday when trying to justify the society's history of false prophecies.
In Don Cameron's book Captives to a Concept he points to a section in the Proclaimers book that talks about why Jesus selected the little group of anointed followers back in 1919.
The Proclaimers books admits that other religions were doing the same as Russell in leaving the Church doctrines behind etc and some were even more highly motivated that the then JW's but the point Don Cameron makes in his book is the society says in the Proclaimers book that INTENT or MOTIVATION doesn't count...it's accurate knowledge that is more important and it is that what Jesus took into consideration when selecting the dubs in 1919.
So the JW on this stand is wrong, the societies view is INTENT counts as diddly squat, it is accurate knowledge that is important.
And hey-ho that is where donny wins this conversation.
