if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.
you can't exist for zero seconds.
But a creationist would say that God existed BEFORE time...again you are putting time into the equation...take it out...meaning your point is moot.
This is what I meant by "cause".
I see...but you still say "What caused him to come into existence" which implies a beginning though...no matter what we imply the term "cause" is...
if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.
Actually I did read your post and understood your point. When I wrote "If God/FSM exists, who or what caused Him to come into existence?" I didn't mention "when", or a concept of time. In other words, I am highlighting the cause/effect issue, not the before/after issue.
My point is God's existence did not have a start and won't have a finish...thus the cause/effect doesn't come into play...the concept of "when" has a bearing on cause/effect...if "when" is "always" then there is no cause/effect in relation to God...cause/effect only comes into play if there is a beginning and there isn't with a God...or so says the bible...
Hence why you cannot use "time" in this equation as to "who created God"
if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.
I think it's far more relevant to ask if God/FSM exists then what is he doing now?
Agreed but that is not the point the OP wants to discuss, perhaps best for another thread?
if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.
who or what caused Him to come into existence?
You haven't read my post..you can't think along the path of "time"...the concept of God exists out with time thus He never had a start or never has a finish...
You have to remove time from the equation...God has always been is the answer as to how He came into existence..if you believe in such a thing.
if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.
The simple answer is if there is a God who is a creator then he exists out with the boundaries of the physical universe and with that time...we humans cannot grasp the concept of outwith time...the bible says that God is the "King of Eternity" and thus He will live forever...thus put that concept backwards and he has always lived or been in existence...something we cannot grasp because we are limited to the concept of time.
You can't understand a God in terms of human boundaries...
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
I just want to echo these sentiments as they are exactly mine...I too have no agenda...I'm genuinely interested in how a person comes to the conclusion that evolution is guided simply because I do not come to that conclusion but I always try and understand the other side.
I thought KateWild might have been up for explaining how she has arrived at that conclusion but apparently not...very strange then to create the thread if you are not going to discuss it but I'm happy to leave it and her and wish her well.
I'm sure I can get the info I seek from elsewhere.
Sorry Kate I've been out and not had a chance to respond earlier. This is your thread and if you believe you have answered and explained everything to a sufficient level then it would be churlish to continue to make request ofyou for more information.
The only thing I will repeat is that I did not engage with you on this thread with some kind of predetermined atheist agenda. I have no interest in proving you right or wrong. I really am interested in your opinion and thinking process. I certainly have no billy big bollocks desire to assert my opinion above yours.
I will not be phoning you to discuss it, not because I am not genuine, but firstly the discussion was happening here and, secondly, I am a married man trying to fade therefore making surreptitious phone calls to ladies my wife does not know is not high on my agenda of risks to take. You might have phone conversations with others, like cantleave, but that's under very different circumstances for you both.
Please don't mistake any of this for some kind of lack of genuine interest. I've read everything you have shared over the years on this site and know how tough things have been as well as seen how you have powered through so much. I do find you obtuse sometimes but you have my utmost respect for what you have achieved to escape the clutches of the WTS and I am glad we remain online buddies.
All the best - k99
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
Myself and other posters have been trying to get this explanation from you, not as some kind of game, not to try and trick you but simply to try and understand.
Exactly what I have been trying to do..no hidden game, no agenda, not trying to prove anyone wrong or have an argument...I'm simply interested in how a person arrives at that conclusion...sorry if that is boring but nothing else to it.
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
I have explained my conclusion.
No you most certainly have not explained how you arrive at your conclusion.
You're not asking anything new.
Perhaps answering our first questions might then make us ask other follow up questions that are different?
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
But I feel your questions are off topic
?
The topic title is "I conclude evolution is guided"...you state one point of view...others state they come up with a different conclusion based on your topic in the OP...which you agree they can easily come to.
All I ask is what makes you "conclude" that evolution is guided...its ok if you don't want to respond...I was just interested in how you arrived at that conclusion...or arrived as to why it is more probable...no big deal...I can see we won't get answer from you on this so happy to leave it.
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
Evidence can be subjective sometimes when it's not 100 % conclusive. That's where free thinking comes into play.
Right but again I ask WHAT evidence points you to the conclusion that evolution is guided barring your OP?
I'm finding you are being evasive about this...provide references please that relate to your point of view as to why you conclude what you conclude...it just can't be your OP?
I am interested in the building blocks of the conclusion that evolution was guided.
