Posts by notsurewheretogo

21

A "killer" question for Jehovah's Witnesses

by Terry in

jw
friends

here is a 'killer' question for jw's.

which description best describes how you see yourself and how you feel?which would you choose?

are you: 1. a christian 2. a jehovah's witness here's the scenario.

notsurewheretogo

This question does jack shit to any JW....jesus h christ....they don't think for themselves Terry....come on you are better than this.

29

If you think Watchtower is disappearing any time soon…

by Reservations in

you are sadly mistaken.. i hear people say it on here all the time, and dare i say his name *cough* lloyd evans *cough* has said it a number of times, that watchtower is running scared and watchtower is in decline….. we need to put in perspective the decrease from the 2020 report.

if we calculate a yearly -0.6 decrease over a 10 year period from 2020 figures it leaves us the grand total number of witnesses of:.

by 2030: - 7,933,479. by 2040: - 7,471,357. by 2050: - 7,036,154. i agree that this is a significant decrease, but let’s not kid ourselves, the wt organisation will still be alive and well even with an annual 0.6% loss.

notsurewheretogo

Time has a massive effect on cults. As we move on from 1914 they have some serious doctrinal issues to address.

It is not going to be ended any time soon as long as they do not change any major doctrines but they HAVE to change the generation, 1914, 1919, anointed doctrines at some point otherwise they just look stupid.

The fact they have attached themselves to key dates and old doctrines poses big issues hence why I think the mantra of obeying no matter what is said is key to retaining JW's given they have to change major doctrines soon to survive.

If they hit 2040 still saying 1914 etc it becomes laughable to join them. Thus that 0.6% decline may rapidly increase.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

Take a look:

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2013/04/10/first-objective-measure-pain-discovered-brain-scan-patterns-cu-boulder-study

But the comparison to the feeling of pain and how each of us feel it compared to an experience of god seems a bit tenuous?

We all feel pain...to different degrees for sure but we know pain exists because all feel it and it can now be measured to great accuracy.

An "experience" equating to god communicating seems wildly different and hugely subject between the two? We can prove pain via science and evidence now but there is still zero proof, tangible, of a god.

It's all related to opinion, perception etc and that in itself lends weight to my point in circumstantial evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that god does not exist given we have zero evidence and the rather fuzzy, non repeatable, tenuous links?

I do love your points on conscious though...this interests me in with my late sister and my inability to comprehend her consciousness is gone. Keep posting and making these points.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

I really do love your posts and debates SBF.

You can’t objectively measure pain.

But they did, that is my point...over 90% accuracy.

Still nothing on the bigger picture as to god talking properly to us all?

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

@SBF.

Scientists can measure pain in someone so not a good example. Researchers at the University of Colorado at Boulder have found a unique neurologic signature in patients’ brain scans that allows them to predict how much pain a person is feeling with 90 to 100 percent accuracy.

That is evidence, concrete proof with repeatable observations producing tangible results. As I say people saying they see aliens, there has been a lot of them, doesn't constitute that aliens exists...the fact we have never seen or contacted or been approached by aliens is the "circumstantial evidence" that I keep repeating that leads to you the conclusion, beyond any reasonable doubt, that aliens do not exist or are not in our reach so may as well not exist.

Thus people saying they have seen god or talked to him etc and no matter how they number is not evidence like the ability to score pain and get over 90% accurate.

As I keep saying going by demonstrable evidence that can be repeated to produce tangible results the probability of god existing falls into the circumstantial evidence beyond any reasonable doubt he simply doesn't.

People having a religious experience lends zero weight to evidence a god exists when you factor in the religion itself, its history and the need for those who want an experience suddenly get one.

My sister passed away recently and two of her three children had unusual activity in the family home that they thought might have been their late mum. The third kid, a late teenager was pondering why he never had any such experience....two days later he did.

As Simon said the mind is powerful and those that want something have a tendency to see things that back up their wish or belief.

Rely on evidence and in the case of god where you can only rely on circumstantial the conclusion many come to is beyond reasonable doubt he doesn't exist.

I've still no answer as to why if he does does he not cut out the bull and just appear before us all, all 7.6 billion of us and communicate directly with us? Just think what he could do and at least reassure everyone we are not alone and he is creator.

Yet nothing, why? If he does exist he is a dick for leaving his creation to what we see around us....I refuse to believe there could be some sort of grander thinking behind NOT revealing himself to everyone.

You ask what evidence? Proper evidence but in this subject that is near impossible hence I'll stick to circumstantial evidence and beyond reasonable doubt and the "god doesn't exist" wins there.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

Because the fact is that religious experiences are commonplace in this world.

They are not, that is not a fact, what you mean to say is:

According to peoples perception they believe they experienced a religious experience and these religious experiences perceptions are commonplace in this world.

Billions believe in a god with no evidence, you are always then going to have people say they have communicated with god, many people saying this does not constitute evidence god is communicating with anyone.

As I say it is all to do with circumstantial evidence and beyond reasonable doubt because there is no concrete evidence either way.

The circumstantial evidence points to no god if you are neutral and free from cognitive dissonance.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

@SBF:

you first need to explain why you claim that God doesn’t communicate with humans when a significant number of people do experience communication with God.

Because they are interpreting god is communicating with them that is something else...it really is that simple...people want or wish something then something happens that then makes them think god is communicating with them...and of course you cannot prove otherwise...convenient.

But again that is not my point, where is the bigger picture? IF a god did exist why not, logically speaking, make yourself manifest to all in a tangible way...why "communicate" with few people in weird ways when mass amounts of suffering is occurring on the planet.

Wouldn't many or all humans be relieved that a powerful deity exists and there is hope etc?

Would a parent not respond to ALL of its children if they needed help.

Fact remains when you consider circumstantial evidence and "beyond reasonable doubt" god simply does not exist.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

Communication with God is apparent to those who have experienced it. Around a third to a half of people report some kind of communication with God when surveyed. That’s a lot of communication going on for a supposedly hidden God. If you’re going to ask why God doesn’t communicate with humans, it would seem reasonable first to answer the rather obvious point that he does communicate with an awful lot of people. Or if you don’t believe them, why don’t you believe them.

Because that communication is not proper communication. You saying people who claim God talked to them and number in the many gives weight to the fact god is communicating with them?

Do you believe the many who believe in the flat earth or ghosts or aliens are right because there are many to do so?

Given the need to believe in something then I'd expect many to say they have heard a god much like many say the earth is flat.

But let us go with your point...let us say god IS communicating with these people...why is he not revealing himself to ALL? Why doesn't he communicate and show himself? Seems he is a pretty shoddy guy if he talks to people one on one with zero evidence he exists.

Just think what could be done on this planet if god revealed himself and communicated.

But he hasn't...

Which means beyond reasonable doubt he doesn't exist.

56

If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

by pistolpete in

you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

notsurewheretogo

Many people believe God does communicate with them in a wide variety of ways. The question posed assumes that those who believe God does communicate with them are all mistaken. What is the basis for this assumption?

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The point is IF there is a god why is it not apparent he is communicating with us.
Imagine being a parent but hiding your communication to your children. The point here is that it seems the lack of any considerable communication lends weight to the side that a god does not exist or a god who is a dick.

19

How on earth can WT lawyers continue to believe WT has God’s backing, when they see all the deception play out in Court.

by pistolpete in

here is a post on reddit from mark and kimmy o’ donnell, from the crusaders documentary,.

ask us anything.. mr. o'donnell gives his assessment of why wt lawyers continue to defend the child sex abuse cases that the organization continues to fight, even though they see firsthand the deception, the lies, the withholding of facts and dirty tactics used in court.

by an organization that claims to be god's earthly representative, and the only one to hold the truth.

notsurewheretogo

It’s not an experiment I would recommend, but if any one of us committed for one year to: go back to all the meetings, lots of preaching, pray often, Bible/Watchtower reading, watch all the videos, really put sincere effort into it, and completely avoid any apostate or hostile media, and never say a word against the society and refuse to listen to anyone else with any remotely critical comments about the truth.
At the end of a year, if you do those things faithfully and without exception, you will probably end up believing JWs have the truth all over again. In fact, you will be confused about how you could ever have been fooled by apostate lies in the past!

Nah no way. It really depends why you left and why you stopped believing.

Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE and with that comes tumbling down the house of cards that this group are "chosen".

Going back a year and doing everything will not change that because they offer zero proof that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE.