Posts by notsurewheretogo

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

Can't join the EU with a deficit of 7% anyway...it has to be 3%...SNP's own Growth Commission Report advises it may take decades to get it down.

And again only by huge tax rises and massive austerity measures to public spending.

An interesting article on the BBC about this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50822431

I quote:

The Strathclyde University economist adds that the public finances have not gone the way of the independence movement. The Scottish government's own numbers estimating tax raised in Scotland, and public spending, continue to show an unsustainably large gap.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

but independence looks pretty likely now

I disagree and would be willing for Boris to call her bluff. The SNP know, right now, they would lose indyref2.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

The publication from the SNP is out asking for the transfer of power of having a referendum to them.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands/

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

I think Scotland would fare O.K

You realize this is the whole issue?

I can't base my kids future prospects on a gamble, a maybe...hard facts are required and none support independence.

SBF has already said he discredits government figures.

It's the WT all over again lol?

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

Ok so you ignore or don't believe GERS figures and are willing to gamble the future of the nation and families based on that gamble? I don't like that risk.

You keep saying it was a SNP landslide last Thursday and it was...in terms of seats.

But in an indy referendum it is number of voters that counts and it is only 2 options to choose from. Yes or No.

If you take all the votes for pro-union parties and add them together 56% of Scotland voted for them. If they were all one party then SNP would have ten seats not 48 as only ten seats won by more than 50% of the votes.

I'm struggling to understand why you think Scotland has a mandate for indyref2 when a) the number of voters that voted SNP, the only indy party, was 35% of the entire voting population of Scotland and only 45% of those that actually voted and b) Of those that voted SNP, the 45% it is estimated 25% of them voted tactically against the Tories and do not support independence.

How can Scotland have a mandate for another indyref when the latest polls show it is not over 50% but more importantly the majority of Scotland in terms of number of voters voted for pro-union parties.

The SNP are not the majority of Scottish voters and do not represent a majority of Scottish people if you count votes not seats and it is votes that will the important thing in an indyref.

If the majority of Scotland do not want an indyref and align themselves to parties and vote in the GE to say so then surely it is against democracy and a complete waste of time and money to have another indyref?

Add in the main reason why it seems to have indyred2 is to get back into the EU where the SNP acknowledge it will take decades via their Growth Commission report then it makes no sense.

I think we need to get Brexit done, the SNP improve their awful track record of devolved powers and let our nations heal a bit. Perhaps review in 5 years time.

I've done 2 referendums and 3 GE's in the last 5 years. Time to stop.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

SBF...

Can you answer the questions I have asked a few times on this thread?

We become independent and stare at a ten billion hole in our finances. How does Scotland fund that?

The two answers I have heard so far are a) get more people in Scotland and b) grow our economy.

Neither will instantly give us ten billion pounds.

How would you convince a person who is politically neutral, has no agenda but simply wants what is best for his people and family etc that independence will create a better future given the facts that we start with ten billion pounds down and lots of infrastructure to create or settle via divorce settlement?

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

Latest poll slim is 44%.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

As I say, all this is hypothetical because Scotland is going to vote for independence at the next referendum. Unionists know this as well—that’s why they are so desperate to avoid having one.

Astonishing statement given facts suggest the opposite...you seem very convinced despite voting results and survey pools slim.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

At the moment there is a majority in the Scottish Parliament for a new referendum because SNP plus Greens supporting it make a majority.

Irrelevant...its people not seats that count. More people voted for pro-union parties.

If there were two parties, pro-union and pro-indy which is the SNP the SNP would have won ten seats last Thursday. An indy vote is two choices just like above.

It is up to voters to decide when, if ever, another referendum should take place. If they want another referendum they can vote for parties that support another referendum.

We decided and indicated that last Thursday where the majority voted pro-union?

because I am sure Scotland will vote for independence at the next opportunity.

What do you base that on??? 44% in the latest survey poll and last Thursday results showed 56% voted for pro-union AND of the 45% that voted SNP 25% of those votes were tactical.

SBF, I thought you were different but man you talk the same as every SNP and Nat...you ignore facts and carry on with the quest for independence.

Do you really want it? Because I know how to win voters. If she tells the UK and Scotland via a credible report (not a once upon a time we will live off oil) just HOW Scotland will run financially and fill the ten billion pound black hole when we leave the UK by NOT cutting public spending by huge austerity measures and NOT raising taxes WHILST spending money on infrastructure to support an independent nation like currency, regulation bodies, foreign office, defence etc that then all goes to make Scotland greater than when they were in the Union then it will win.

There is a reason why she and the SNP have never answered this. You HAVE read the SNP's Growth Commission Report in 2018 that details decades of measures to bring the deficit down so we can apply back into the EU?

Heck I saw a SNP MP being asked this very question a couple of weeks ago on the TV and the answer he gave was "to make Scotland a better place to live so people move in and we tax them."...ten...billion...pounds worth?

If the SNP want independence then they need to show how it can be done and start dramatically improving their use of the powers they got from devolution in 2007 because they are horrendous. Some public sectors are still not devolved and we are near 13 years on yet she promises Scotland can leave the UK in 18 months.

Cognitive Dissonance if I have ever seen it.

109

Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon in

jw
friends

the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

notsurewheretogo

You can delay democracy but you can’t stop it forever

Exactly...the democratic expression in 2014 was Scotland remain in the UK.

Last Thursday it was the democratic expression of Scotland that 56% voted for pro-union parties.

The 2019 election gave a mandate for another referendum

No, no it did not when the majority voted for pro-union parties. Seats do not matter, vote numbers count.

56% voted for pro-union parties...that is a majority. There is no mandate for another referendum.

Once the UK leaves the EU at the end of next month an independent Scotland would be stranded outside the EU with a huge deficit and no chance of getting back into Europe without agonising austerity measures to balance the economy.

Why does every single SNP or Nat not see this and never comments when it is raised? 5 years I've raised this and never had an answer from any SNP supporter or nat.