john.prestor

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Posts by john.prestor

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  53

  Fred Franz Former Training in Ancient Greek

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone been able to verify that fred franz received the minimal training in ancient greek that he claimed gave him the expertise to translate the bible?

  you would think that would be fairly easy to verify or disprove in this day and age.

  what college did he attend?

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  john.prestor

  I haven't been able to find much information on Fred Franz in any scholarly source.
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

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  john.prestor

  8Exactly. The likeliness of some kind of grassroots movement forming is extremely slim because anyone who might try to engineer such a thing is weeded out before even joining. I know of only one attempt at this led by James Penton, which was immediately crushed with his disfellowshipping; and to my knowledge he barely gained a following. Maybe somebody else can add to my knowledge on this, I think it happened in the 80s.

  So change has to come from the top. But because of bureaucracy and discipline, only the Governing Body can enact change, but only with a majority vote, so change has to be incremental. We all know what happened to Ray Franz for even entertaining radically unorthodox beliefs. Who on the Governing Body is going to risk their enormous prestige and leisurely lifestyle to give women better treatment, for instance, when even suggesting the idea because of how radical it is could get them demoted or even disfellowshipped?
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

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  john.prestor

  Of course. By that I mean that a Bible study vets candidates by ensuring:

  They ask you to view the Governing Body as the legitimate spiritual authority.

  They ask women to accept men as their legitimate superiors.

  In other words, they only permit individuals to join who present no threat to their existing hierarchy and hierarchs.
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

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  john.prestor

  Thanks for supporting me guys. Seriously.

  The paper I'm working on now explains that the Jehovahs Witness organization changes so slowly because of bureaucracy, discipline/surveillance, and legitimacy. I'm happy to pass on a draft to anyone who's interested, PM me. Same with the book manuscript.
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

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  john.prestor

  Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho: Thank you for your kind words. Thats also a fascinating exchange of emails, and I appreciate you posting those. That certainly reinforce my conclusions at the Bible study is partially about establishing domination and quite frankly comes across as insulting and condescending on the study's part.

  Another thought I had is that a Bible study is also about accepting the non-elite role eventually during Watchtower Studies. Your study reads the question, you answer. That's exactly what happens at the Kingdom Hall. You don't like that method, you find it pedantic or tiresome, as I did, you're not fit for the Watchtower Study, a major part of the service.

  Whatever I get published as an article I I won't be able to post here, and I'll be honest, it will be expensive to gain access to it online. When you get something published in an academic journal you have to sign over the copyright However, I'm also preparing a book manuscript and if I get that published (that's a longer-term goal and may take a number of years) I may receive free copies of the book. I'll hold some kind of raffle on here and send them out!
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  29

  Pioneers, Prayers and Pills

  by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  looking back on my two decades as a jehovah’s witness, i’ve come to realize how the constant theme of endurance is playing a detrimental role on the individual's psyche.. jehovah’s witnesses have become far too good at keeping going.

  they’re experts at surrendering to the demands of the watchtower, living up to what’s expected of them, and getting on with the priorities that those in power have defined and imposed upon them.

  they keep showing up, presenting themselves a dutiful pioneer or ministerial servant.

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  john.prestor

  I think you're onto something: them bucking the movement's standards certainly indicates that some part of them needs some kind of release, some kind of freedom and independence. Jehovah's Witnesses operate in a very oppressive environment, and eventually, the human being wants out. We aren't meant to be constantly dominated.

  I find your words inspiring: human beings should be happy and proud, they should accept themselves for who they are (and yet work on their flaws and shortcomings without being ashamed of them), and they should express themselves and connect with others. It seems like the Jehovah's Witness faith is almost designed to keep people from experiencing strong human emotions except for a very comparative, hostile love of self at the expense of "Christendom" and "false religion."
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

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  john.prestor

  I'm happy to hear I'm on the right track.

  2=2=5: That fits very much with one skit I saw at a Kingdom Hall in which a "student" asked their "study," "But I still have more questions," and the study told them, "Right, and we have four more paragraphs to help you with that." This taught the audience, or attempted to teach the audience, not to allow the "student" to gain any control over what they discussed or spoke to in the "Bible study." I've found that for myself: when I asked Jehovah's Witnesses questions they couldn't answer or attempted in any way to dominate the conversation (I invite them in when they knock at the door) they quickly excused themselves, claiming someone was waiting in the car so they could get coffee or lunch or something. From what I've read on this forum this is a common tactic.

  Finkelstein and sir82: I'm with you guys, that's what I'm coming to notice. But this line of thinking is not acceptable within academia (i.e., we're not supposed to deem religion to be a negative force except, perhaps, in sectarian conflicts or radicalism) so it's taken me a while to get here.

  Vidiot: God is that dark, ha, but honestly, given all the wasted lives over all the wasted years, it seems like a somewhat fair comparison...

  LongHairGal: The treatment of women in this faith is abominable. The paper I'm currently working on, and will hopefully publish in the next year or two, discusses in part the movement's treatment of women. I quote Samuel Herd on women's brains being "10% smaller than men's, and this shows she's just not equipped for headship" but rather "for subjection." Blatant misogyny. I'm glad you left.
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  32

  Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

  that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

  -frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

  1. 
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• 

  john.prestor

  I want to suggest something that I've been ruminating on for a while now. That involves the possibility that when Jehovah's Witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that God "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting Jehovah's Witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).

  I say this because from what I observed at the Kingdom Halls I attended in the course of gathering data for my research I saw:

  -Frequent shaming: Jehovah's Witnesses must do more to be acceptable to God, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through Armageddon by Jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc. They are constantly praying publicly for their sins to be forgiven or for "when they fall short." Women endure sexist remarks and jokes. It is also shameful to go door-to-door or man a cart in the sense that a Jehovah's Witness endures at least ambient shame in doing so (everyone knows who they are when they see them coming down the street, give them funny looks, and/or close their curtains and hides) and sometimes outright rudeness or hostility (slamming the door in their face, telling them to "keep walking"). I heard of or observed all of these things in my time studying Jehovah's Witnesses.

  -Frequent assertions of dominance and reminders of their inferior status: Jehovah's Witnesses must obey the Governing Body to gain salvation, must obey even if it doesn't make sense, Jehovah's Witnesses are inferior to the anointed, etc. They even sing utterly authoritarian songs like "Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order" (!) which quite frankly creeped me out.

  So, that's my thoughts: that part of what Jehovah's Witnesses are "testing for" when they contact you is your willingness to endure shame and your willingness to submit to their leadership. I want to hear your thoughts on this.
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  13

  Convention 2018 Notes

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  someone on jwtalk has shared their convention notes (for those interested in a jw perspective).

  jehovah’s people will experience hardships, so reliance on god is paramount!.

  prayer is essential and vital for our spiritual well-being.

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  john.prestor

  Sounds like... the same thing they hear every year at conventions, at meetings, at assemblies...
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  14

  what will be the next thing

  by pepperheart in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi what will be the next thing that watchtower will cut,if you say the leaked video that fay put up the finance guy from the watchtower was saying that they had spent $26 million in about 6 months.

  so if they are getting through money that fast then they are going to have problems.

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  john.prestor

  They can't eliminate COs because COs ensure that Bodies of Elders comply with the GB.