Remember this: you woke yourself up and you didnt have to, and that says something about your character and resolve. You decided to wake up and face reality instead of staying in denial all your life like so many others. I, too, made that decision slowly as a teenager waking up in a fundamentalist Baptist church. You should feel anger towards these people, although as time passes try your best to let that anger go and live your life like you talk about, and I'm talking to myself here as much as you, my anger comes and goes, but lately I feel a newfound optimism and joy in living. Express yourself, meet people, connect with your kids, connect with yourself. You got this. You're stronger than you know. And you're not rambling: trust me, I know what you're going through, and you need to share your thoughts and feelings you share them anytime.
john.prestor
JoinedPosts by john.prestor
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How do you deal with the emotions of waking up? ---my ramble -----
by Fognomore ingood morning, .
i am just wondering how you have constructively worked through the emotions of waking up?
i am trying hard to be positive, and i know life is a gift.
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Infiltrated Elders?
by john.prestor inso i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.
he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.
ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.
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john.prestor
Wow, thanks for those references, that conforms it. -
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Infiltrated Elders?
by john.prestor inso i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.
he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.
ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.
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john.prestor
I really value the input guys, it puts it in context for me. What he's saying might be true, from what people are saying, but it definitely plays into their usual persecution thing.
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Infiltrated Elders?
by john.prestor inso i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.
he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.
ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.
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john.prestor
Thanks for the feedback guys. Yeah, it's not out of the question it happened, jwfacfs, I just noticed like you and stuckinarut2do that they're admitting something they shouldn't admit by saying that. That draws my attention and makes me question their motivation.
I'm with you Xanthippe, it's a warning about something, and it might be apostates. I connect it back to child sex abuse because he's talking about governments doing this, and governments keep investigating them, so the context fits.
I think you're onto something too, smiddy3, it's definitely about control and I think in this case information control, keeping people from believing things that make the Governing Body look bad
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Infiltrated Elders?
by john.prestor inso i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.
he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.
ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.
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john.prestor
So I'm watching John Cedars commentary on the Annual Meeting from this last October, and at one point he shows a clip of Garrett Loesch talking about the struggles Jehovah's Witnesses faced decades before in the Soviet Union. He claimed that police officers, maybe the KGB, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming Elders. Ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role Holy Spirit actually plays within Body of Elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now. Look, I can get paranoid sometimes, and I don't want to jump to conclusions, and that's part of why I'm even posting this. So give me your honest thoughts at the end.
What he's describing sounds ridiculous, I don't know how else to say that. Pretending to study so you can turn someone into the government, that I believe. I saw a video a few years back at a congregation I studied in which a Brother imprisoned for his faith in China described just that happening in a believable way. But what would be the point of even infiltrating and then working to become an Elder? I guess you could contact other congregations and turn a bunch of them in, so maybe the spy goes for the long con, the long game, it's not out of the question, it just sounds contrived and bizarre. Does anyone know of any proof whatsoever that something like this happened anywhere in the world within this organization?
I ask for this reason: we all know the Governing Body communicates with the faithful through implication, they imply things they don't wanna say directly, like we all know Armageddon's right around the corner implies Armageddon will come within a couple years at most, we all know that. But they don't actually say that, so you can't hold them accountable for the couple years part, because what Armageddon's right around the corner means actually depends on how you interpret it, even though they know how you'll interpret it.
So here's my question: does Gerrit Losch mean to suggest to his listeners that some Elders could secretly work for the government? It's not a statement you can make likely in and of itself, saying that sets a precedent that goes beyond this historical example and could easily raise suspicions about Elders, something the Governing Body doesn't normally do. I could totally see Jehovah's Witnesses who hear about Elders covering up child sex abuse, Elders molesting children, tell themselves or to each other, Nah, that's actually undercover police trying to make us look bad. That's a question, not a statement. I suspect that's what he's trying to do or at the very least opening the door to, but I can't be sure. It's just a weird thing to say, so I'm wondering why he said it to begin with. Why pick that story out of all possible stories to share, even if it is true?
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May 2019 child abuse WT
by neat blue dog inthe new study edition watchtower is up, and most of it is devoted to child abuse damage control.. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/.
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john.prestor
Yeah I picked up on that too WillYouDF me, their wording is very... clever, he "may" never qualify for privileges, the Elders "may" inform parents. In other words, they might, they might not. He might, he might not. Shameful.
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Events leading to my decision to disassociate
by Roger Kirkpatrick infollowing is a summary of events leading up to my decision to disassociate from jehovah's witnesses and the unforeseen results of that decision.. a young man named joel engardio produced a documentary about jehovah's witnesses called "knocking" which aired nationally on pbs.
i purchased the dvd from joel before it was even released and we exchanged emails.
joel had been raised by his jw mother and had been active in jw activities during his adolescence, but he was never baptized as a jw.
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john.prestor
Roger, you made the right decision. I respect that you chose your own way, and when you wanted out, you got out. Keep living your life for you.
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May 2019 Watchtower doubles down on the "Two Witness Rule" !
by stuckinarut2 inthis is simply disturbing and infuriating!.
the may 2019 wt has defiantly and arrogantly been released by the gb, and it is full of their disgusting excuses for not complying with authorities!.
(i have seen and read all the articles, but cant work out how to upload a link here - perhaps someone can assist?).
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john.prestor
Much of what the Governing Body says (indirectly, anonymously) in those articles sounds good: show compassion, believe children, help them see they're not responsible, send them a card or bake them a meal, that kinda stuff. But their galling unwillingness to change the two witness rule shows their true feelings: they care little to nothing for children's well-being. The Governing Body might be indoctrinated and stubborn and arrogant but they aren't braindead: it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a child molester won't molest a child in front of a witness. They know by now that their policies don't protect children, the ARC spelled that out for them 4-5 years ago now, they just pretend not to or they don't care and either way the end result is the same: pedophiles preying on children with immunity. These people should be in prison. How dare they tell Jehovah's Witnesses that Elders "immediately" spring into action when a child comes forward when so much evidence worldwide proves that's the exception, not the rule, and they know, they absolutely know, that that's the sad state of affairs within the "Christian congregation" today.
God, they make my blood boil. Lock um up, all 8 of them, and throw away the key.
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Interesting post regarding validity of CSA claims in ARC
by berrygerry inone of the key submissions to the arc was a document wat.0021.001.0001, which is a spreadsheet summarising the 1006 case files subpoenaed from the wt's australian branch and is available on the arc website.
i had a detailed look at the data and discovered a few things that may be of interest:.
although the 1006 cases cover reports made in a 65 year period from 1950 to 2015, almost half of all cases (449) were first reported in the 10 years from 2000 to 2009 and 87% were first reported after 1990.. the two witness rule was a factor in preventing at least 125 cases from proceeding to a judicial committee.. there were 163 cases with 336 victims where the perpetrator was an elder or ms.. the total number of victims was 1,858.. from time to time on this forum i have read comments suggesting that false reports of child sexual abuse are quite common.
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john.prestor
Thank you for posting this. Thank you for standing up for the victims of child sex abuse, who the Governing Body and many Elders won't lift a finger to help.
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G.B.Are they Manipulative Lying S.O.B.`s / Not Genuine in their Beliefs ?
by smiddy3 ini raise this question for many reasons really ,thinking back on their past history and how they have responded to past failures .that they explain away as human imperfections.. on the one hand they claim to be gods spokesperson on earth .the only true religion god is using to dispense his truths at the proper time.
and that members of the gb are the f&ds class assigned to do this.. or do they deliberately manipulate witnesses vulnerability about world events ,disasters ,earthquakes etc ,to prey on those fears about the gt /armageddon.. that they are constantly warned about .
and that it is impending.. producing videos that show how jw`s will be persecuted round up and imprisoned simply for being a jw .on a worldwide scale .. the bunker video ?.
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john.prestor
slimboyfat, I'm with you there, and I see that fatigue on Morris's face too, he doesn't smile much, his voice waivers, there's no enthusiasm in his words... maybe all his tight pants rants wore him out, but more likely it's just old age, and him being more and more aware of how he looks to outsiders what with all the child sex abuse lawsuits. In general terms, things aren't going as planned anymore.