john.prestor

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Posts by john.prestor

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  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

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• 

  john.prestor

  TTWSYF: to respond to your post...

  Irenaeus of Lyons: did not know apostles, he wrote around 175CE; he's only repeating what he heard from Polycarp, who he knew when he was a boy

  Justin Martyr: did not know apostles, he only repeats what he's been taught and read in the "memoirs of the apostles," i.e., canonical gospels; wrote around 150CE

  Ignatius: fake letters, probably forged by Polycarp himself

  Clement of Rome: in 1 Clement he never claims to have known apostles, he speaks of them at a distance

  But even if these people knew apostles, that would only make their claims early, not true. Early claims could still be lies. Within days of 911, I was being shown pictures of Satan's face in the smoke of the twin towers, and shown pictures of "missiles" the US had supposedly fired at the planes.

  Early does not equal true.
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  Polycarp claimed to be a disciple of the apostle John, yes. I don't accept that claim and I'm skeptical of it but that's what he said. He told some story about him and John fleeing the heretic Cerinthus in a bathhouse in Ephesus.

  Anyway, I don't take those 12 claims as facts, which is the problem we're having.
• 
  37

  Will You Get Back To Normal After Covid Subsides?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some say we will never get back to pre-pandemic days.

  others say we should expect to live with masks and social distancing as the “new normal “.

  still others are hopeful that we can live life realizing there might never be an end to covid or cancer or influenza but our lives must continue to go on.

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  john.prestor

  Somebody's not happy about our opinions, haha.
• 
  37

  Will You Get Back To Normal After Covid Subsides?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some say we will never get back to pre-pandemic days.

  others say we should expect to live with masks and social distancing as the “new normal “.

  still others are hopeful that we can live life realizing there might never be an end to covid or cancer or influenza but our lives must continue to go on.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  I'm sick of masks. As soon as we don't have to wear them, mine is coming off. I'll be vaccinated in a few weeks anyway. I don't wear one now unless I have to anyway (work, public transport).
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  I don't care who accepts the empty tomb as a fact. It is not a fact, there is no tomb, period. Where is the tomb? Show me proof that there was a 1st century CE tomb, much less owned by Joseph of Arimathea in which Jesus' body was laid after crucifixion and then wasn't in later. Again, don't use the Bible.

  Here's an explanation: the empty tomb is a late lie invented by persons like Polycarp of Smyrna, who needed to explain to a Greek audience why people should believe in Christianity. It is meant to bolster their own claims to authority and power in the church.
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  Again, you continue to retreat to the Bible. I can't have a coherent discussion with you because you take the Bible at face value and I don't. The Bible lurks behind everything you say.

  Try to get this through your head: the empty tomb is a late legend. There was no empty tomb, there was no way to falsify early Christian claims that Jesus had resurrected.

  The early tomb is not a fact. It is a fiction, dreamed up decades later somewhere in Greece or Asia Minor.
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  You didn't answer my question. The question is, If it's early, does that make it true? I don't feel like we're getting anywhere.

  The simple answer to my question is No, it doesn't. Even if Paul heard something literally the day after Jesus died from Peter & Co in Jerusalem, that still doesn't make it true. They could be lying, mistaken, delusional, tricked, etc.
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  Does that make it true, early or not early? Earlier in that piece he points out that there's no way to confidently date 1 Cor. 15's credal statement
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  I haven't mentioned Ehrman once. I do not believe he said that and if he did, I disagree with him. The credal statement in 1 Corinthians cannot be dated easily. However, a late date can be seen from the fact that two credal statements are jammed together, one favoring Peter, one favoring James. I'll try to find the article I read which made that argument convincingly.

  For now, let me link you to Richard Carrier on the claim that that credal statement is as old as you say it is. I watched your video, so read this link:

  https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/11069

  Even if it was early, so what? It's still bullshit.
  
  
• 
  48

  An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

  by Rocketman123 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

  hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  john.prestor

  Do not try to equate history with silly, fantastical stories about a guy raising from the dead. That's not history.

  Did you want to respond to any of the other points I made?