It sounds like an attempt to have it both ways. If the prediction they make comes to pass, they can claim that it is evidence that they have Jehovah's favor. If the prediction does not come to pass, they can explain that they didn't claim to be prophets and thus the failed prediction does not imply that they lack God's favor. The WTS has occasionally gone further and accused the rank and file of reading too much into a prediction, and thus having unreasonable expectations.
TonusOH
JoinedPosts by TonusOH
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"Jehovah Will Help You Deal With Life’s Uncertainties" - WT Study Edition | April 2023
by aqwsed12345 ini'm talking about paragraph 15 of this article:.
the title of the study article: "jehovah will help you deal with life’s uncertainties".
accordingly, does it count as an "unexpected difficulty" when it turns out that a prophet's declaration made in the name of god does not come true?
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168
Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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TonusOH
Sea Breeze: Christians can logically answer this question because of their belief that we are made in the image of a loving God and have intrinsic value.
Do we really have intrinsic value in a universe created by god? God does not need us. No matter how I behave in my lifetime, god could justifiably end my existence. Who would stop him? My behavior, good or ill, does not affect him, it does not change him. It cannot, by definition, since god is already perfect.
Putting aside the difficulty of reconciling his actions with the notion that he personifies love, we can logically recognize that we do not have intrinsic value in a reality where we are created by this being.
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Moral responsibility.
by nicolaou inno subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.
please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.
a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!
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TonusOH
Iriddle80: God had to do certain things
I don't see where god "had to" do anything. He is free to act and no one can challenge him. When some of his questionable actions are mentioned, we are reminded that god is not on the same moral plane as humanity is. He is good, his essential nature is good, his every action and decision are good. There is an endless set of options for how he could proceed at any time.
If the world is in this condition, it is entirely god's fault. Or, it is exactly as he wishes for it to be.
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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TonusOH
That was ExB quoting me, cofty. I got the impression about Conway Morris from the Wikipedia entry for him:
He has lectured at the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion on "Evolution and fine-tuning in Biology". He gave the University of Edinburgh Gifford Lectures for 2007 in a series titled "Darwin's Compass: How Evolution Discovers the Song of Creation". In these lectures Conway Morris makes several claims that evolution is compatible with belief in the existence of a God.
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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TonusOH
That isn't what I am referring to. I am asking if you accept evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life, regardless of whether it happened by chance or by design. The question of what 'guided' it can remain open, but even the biologists who think it was design do not doubt that life evolved.
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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TonusOH
But you're good with evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on the planet?
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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TonusOH
Yes, that's correct. Conway Morris believes (and has made his case in lectures -and a book?) that a study of evolution can lead one to the conclusion that there is an intelligence behind it. And there are many other scientists -including evolutionary biologists- who believe that god exists, and that evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet.
If ExB accepts this much, I think it's a step forward.
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We are now 23 Years past Armageddon as the GB stated
by JohnTron7 inso the end was going to come by 2000 as documented in the magazines back in the late 80's early 90's.. so how did they get the time off so badly ( over two decades and still nothing) since the gb is jehovah's earthly mouthpiece right ?
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TonusOH
"Millions now living will never die" was from Rutherford's speech at the 1922 convention, if memory serves. I think it was modified to "may never die" at some point in order to soften the impact, though they also decided to forget Rutherford's predictions regarding the return of the 'worthies' in 1925, which would presumably precipitate the end. When that is taken into account, you can understand why he was so confident in his 1922 claim.
Then he got it wrong, and most of it was either forgotten or modified (and then forgotten).
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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TonusOH
ExB: all the best scientists and evolution experts who make a case for intelligence being involved.
Who would those be? You imply that there is as strong a case being made for either concept (chance versus design), but is that the case? There are evolutionary biologists who believe in god. How many of them are producing peer-reviewed papers on evolution that mention the role of god, or 'design'?
My point is that yes, bias is inherent in everyone's approach and opinions. Science attempts to minimize that through a rigorous process of testing, documentation, and peer-review. Science can get things wrong in the short term, but over a longer period of time it refines what it knows as more is learned and more people investigate. The theory of evolution has more than 150 years of such work put into it. Thousands of scientists, more than a century of effort, countless man-hours of research and review. No god. No intellect. No design.
I don't think the two approaches are anywhere near to being equally supported at this point.
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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TonusOH
Put me down for a loss of 20. I'm using that number since I understand it to be the age limit for when it's okay to sell your body to strangers without making them feel guilty about it.