I don't get the impression that it's 30%, but as has already been noted, this is not saying that 30% are atheist/agnostic, but that they are not listing their religion (if any). I think we may be in a transition period, where people are dropping away from some of the formal activities of religion but maintaining a spiritual outlook and some kind of belief in the paranormal/supernatural.
TonusOH
JoinedPosts by TonusOH
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Confirmation that religion is dying.
by Phizzy inthis is from a site called "atheist republic" :.
" the phenomenon of "nones" — individuals who claim no religious affiliation — is rapidly reshaping america's religious landscape.
recent surveys by the associated press-norc center for public affairs research indicate that 30% of u.s. adults identify as nonreligious.
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My conclusion on the matter
by ExBethelitenowPIMA inafter being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.
i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.
but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.
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TonusOH
ExB: If you once believed in intelligent design as the origin of everything then go over to believe chance as the origin then who is to say what is right and wrong?
Morals are used to protect a group, be it a community or a nation. Thus, they are arrived at by the group, and as the community grows and becomes more organized, they are codified as rules or laws.
After all, it is not difficult to imagine what would happen to a community where murder and theft were not outlawed. The community would break down as people were robbed and killed, until few were left. Their lives would be worse off, and their prospects for surviving long enough to reproduce would dwindle. A community that worked to limit destructive behavior would not have this problem. Thus, human communities selected for traits and ideas that made for better and safer lives.
Even many animal species follow behavioral rules that protect the group, which makes them more likely to grow and evolve further. This kind of behavioral framework will work much better than those that do not control destructive behavior.
I don't need a god or book to help me to understand why certain behaviors are preferred and others are not. The simplest reason (but not the only one, by far) for why murder, theft, or rape are bad are that I know I would not want to experience them. A society where these behaviors are outlawed is going to be in better shape than one where they are not. This is easy to recognize without divine intervention.
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found a tract at my door/with a catch!
by enoughisenough ini found a tract at my door.
it was from a local baptist church!
( actually,i think someone wanted to give me a donation for the left over yardsale items i gave away.
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TonusOH
That is the problem with the WTS approach. They want you to be open-minded and question everything when you are not a JW, then they want you to have unquestioned loyalty and obedience when you are.
They try to hide it a little bit- the approach is "test the things we tell you and you will see that they are true." Not 'test it to see if it is true' but 'test it and you will confirm it is true.' If your test does not confirm that what they tell you is true, then you had better test again and again until you see the truth of what they are saying. Otherwise you risk removal.
When you are in and determined to stay in, you can gloss over the contradiction. But it doesn't go away. Every time you see/hear a JW reject any non-WTS literature or discussion because it is dangerous to read or listen to, you wonder why someone who has god's own truth would be afraid to confront the devil's lies. In order to continue to remain, you have to lie to yourself. At some point you either confront this problem or you bury it.
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My conclusion on the matter
by ExBethelitenowPIMA inafter being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.
i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.
but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.
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TonusOH
Big Dog: The lawlessness that often accompanies a breakdown in social order can certainly make one wonder if humans are truly moral creatures.
That's an interesting point. Experience tells us that a surprising number of people will put aside their morals when faced with an opportunity to do so in apparent safety. This is especially true if the opportunity allows them some kind of moral 'wiggle room' (such as harming someone who is "deserving"). Our morality is almost never a black/white construct- it is wrapped in layers of understanding. Our community, our religious belief, our personal circumstances... all of these play a part.
Perhaps the real issue is the presumption that morals can only be rigid and inflexible. Almost no one treats them that way, with the probable exception of the ones with a solid consensus (murder or rape, for example). Admitting that morality is frequently pliable seems to be a non-starter for many religious believers, since they are certain that these rules come from god and are therefore strict regardless of severity.
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Jehovah's Witness' bid to be excluded from abuse inquiry dismissed
by Tahoe inlink to article.
a legal bid by the jehovah's witness church to get out of being part of the royal commission of inquiry into abuse in care has been dismissed by the high court in wellington.. after nearly three years of behind-the-scenes legal wrangling to avoid scrutiny from the inquiry, the church applied for a judicial review in june.. at a hearing, held earlier this month it argued it was beyond the inquiry's scope because it did not operate institutions that cared for children or vulnerable people and the inquiry had uncovered no evidence of abuse in that context.. lawyers representing the inquiry argued that jehovah's witness elders - equivalent to ministers or pastors - exercised a level of control over the congregation that allowed them access to children.. the inquiry informed abuse survivors who gave evidence to the inquiry in relation to the jehovah's witnesses of the news this afternoon.. "we have received advice from the high court that none of the causes of action brought by the jehovah's witnesses has succeeded and the application for judicial review has been dismissed.
the judge's reasons are not yet available, but are expected in the near future," the email to survivors, seen by rnz, said.. the church was the only faith-based institution in the country to legally challenge its involvement in the inquiry, although it had attempted to challenge its status in other countries where similar inquiries have also been carried out.. the inquiry said, in a statement, that the dismissal "means the royal commission can continue to investigate the jehovah's witnesses, and all other faiths, in accordance with the pastoral care approach we have been applying since 2019".. "reasons for the high court's judgment are not yet available but are expected in the near future.
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TonusOH
The church was the only faith-based institution in the country to legally challenge its involvement in the inquiry,
I guess that is one way to stand out from the crowd.
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My conclusion on the matter
by ExBethelitenowPIMA inafter being brought up a jw, going to mts, bethel, pioneer school multiple times, serving in foreign assignments and having been an elder for decades my conclusion is that i am now pima, physically in mentally agnostic.. agnostic means you think it can’t be proven either way creation or evolution.
i do tend to lean towards evolution but creation at the very start because you can’t get life from dead matter.
but i’m open to the possibility of chance theory at the origin of it all.
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TonusOH
Creation and evolution do not have to be mutually exclusive. Many theists believe that god created the universe, created Earth, and populated it, then allowed evolution to further diversify life on the planet.
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JWLITE
by Teddnzo ineven elders can be part of the new jw lite brigade these days.
they don’t need to go on door to door anymore and there is no requirement for anything really.. taking meeting parts is all dead easy you could turn up on the day with zero preparation because it’s all in the meeting workbook.. quarterly elders meetings are just old men having a good old natter just like old men do down the pub.. congregations could be likened to pubs or bars these days just without the drinks, those come at other times.. no need for territory maps, these almost went away with covid letter writing now they are extremely slow getting finished as those who still go door to door only do ten mins.. you could even voice your questions these days about things the gb say and then just say “we can’t be dogmatic we just don’t know”.
i predict they will say this about 1914 soon..
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TonusOH
If people begin to challenge the GB, expect a lot of pressure from elders for that to stop immediately, and scripted talks reminding the rank and file that the GB is the F&DS and that Jehovah guides the congregation through them, and so on. The word "apostasy" will probably be used.
Don't get me wrong- I openly encourage current JWs -especially PIMI JWs- to question the leadership and try to make sense of the recent updates and changes. The more questions they ask, the more opportunities they have to examine the answers. And hopefully many of them will find the answers unsatisfying.
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2023-10-17 and 2023-10-20 Letters!
by Atlantis in2023-10-17-legal seminar.
page 1. https://imgbox.com/cm4qip9v .
page 2. https://imgbox.com/rvnapwrq .
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TonusOH
"ONLY those in good spiritual, physical, and emotional health should apply."
No mention of mental health?
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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TonusOH
I don't know how it works in Croatia, but typically a defendant must be notified of what action is being taken against them so that they can prepare a defense. Police in the USA, for example, must inform a defendant of the charges against them and provide the defendant (usually through their lawyer) all of the relevant evidence that they have. In a civil suit, the plaintiff must serve the defendant with a copy of the suit (a ritual that can become almost comical when the defendant is determined to avoid being served).
While a verdict may be handed down in absentia, typically this is when the defendant has been served and refuses to appear when summoned. I am guessing that the court will rule on the submission and decide whether the case can go forward or not. If it rules that it can, then the information would have to be sent to the defendants. For a case where the defendants are scattered around the world, that can be a challenge in and of itself, since you will want to confirm that they were served the papers. If the cost of translation was "eye watering," I can only imagine what process servers across the globe will charge.
But this assumes the court would rule that the case can go forward. That seems unlikely. I'd be surprised if it wasn't dismissed. It would be worth it if they do not dismiss it, just to see Evans panic as he realizes that he must now serve papers to seven people who live all over the planet.
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Encouraging scriptures for the day
by Kosonen inhello my friends,.
here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.
revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).
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TonusOH
Luke 17:10 does not describe humility; it describes low self-esteem.