Posts by TonusOH

44

Thoughts on Likely Upcoming Changes in the Org.

by Phizzy in

i am thinking that the "ten year plan" that some have spoken of is the most likely scenario.

the org.

has to both attract new members and retain as many existing ones as possible.. so i think they will let the recent changes "bed in" for a while, maybe a year ?

TonusOH

The two-witness rule is fine for settling issues of sin or immorality that do not rise to the level of criminal actions. The problem with the two-witness rule is when it is applied in cases where there are crimes involved. Police need to be contacted, period. Their investigation and possible trial/conviction of a person is separate from the 'spiritual' investigation the elders are supposed to perform. There's no reason to prevent a person from going to the authorities or even advising against it when the law has been broken.

They should also butt out of any sort of civil legal action taken by members of the congregation. If a brother ripped you off, a group of elders is probably not qualified to perform a proper investigation and would lack legal authority to do things like subpoena documents or personal records (phone/email/etc). Telling you to let it go because it might make the organization look bad is ridiculous and stupid. It also protects scammers who might realize that a JW congregation is a perfect place to con a bunch of people out of their money (a scenario that has happened before, from what I've been told).

54

If the org. Is being advised by consultants, is a name change in the works?

by nowwhat? in

let's be honest, there's a stigma to the name jehovah's witness.

if they are going more mainstream.

i imagine the first recommendation was a name change.

TonusOH

Rutherford is a good reminder that you can screw things up pretty badly and still survive. They lost almost 3/4 of the membership thanks to his shenanigans from the late 10s to the mid 20s, but when he died twenty years later, there had been significant growth.

Not that I'd advise anyone to behave like Rutherford.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Ron. W.: Perhaps he thought in the future he would be able to retire and live a non jw life of ease on the strength of these and other donations..

That would have been a possibility if he knew what he was doing. As others are pointing out, he doesn't plan. He doesn't understand the effects of his actions or the ramifications of his decisions. He was making more than the average person in Croatia, possibly by a very healthy margin. And his expenses should have been small since his in-laws were providing him with living space. Even accounting for his extracurricular activities, he should have been living well below his means and building up a sizable nest egg.

3

Wishing that You Could Make it all Go Away

by NotFormer in

there're always things we did in the past that we wish had never happened or that we could make them all go away.. the wt actually can do this, to a certain extent.

speculation about tony?

they command the r&f to stop doing it, and it goes away.

TonusOH

The closed, secretive, and controlling approach can work for some time. But it requires a lot of effort and the ability to react quickly to anything that might threaten that control. And the control has to go almost all the way to the top.

The internet has made it tougher to keep unwanted information from the rank-and-file. Even if they do not look for it, others can, and can confront them with it. The attention they are getting from courts and governments around the world for issues like CSA and shunning makes it harder to shield the rank-and-file from it. You don't have to seek out 'apostate sources' in order to learn about these cases; mainstream media is covering them, and you can read these reports from around the world from the comfort of your home PC.

Government pressure on the organization is nothing new. But now, it is much harder to control the narrative. What do you do when a congregation member gets the real story from a regular news site? Do you distrust the 'worldly media' when you are changing policies in response to their discoveries and claims? Do you demand that rank-and-file JWs only get their info from jw.org?

54

If the org. Is being advised by consultants, is a name change in the works?

by nowwhat? in

let's be honest, there's a stigma to the name jehovah's witness.

if they are going more mainstream.

i imagine the first recommendation was a name change.

TonusOH

That would surprise me. I suppose anything is possible, but that sounds like a really bad idea.

"Jehovah's Witnesses" is not just a name, it is effectively a brand. And it's a very well-known brand around the world. If they change it, people would append "formerly Jehovah's Witnesses" to every mention of the new name. So they would not get away from it, and it would add the additional stigma of people wondering why they changed it, which could lead to more interest in their issues with CSA and shunning, with their anti-gay stance, and with any other issues they prefer not to discuss publicly.

Changing it could lead to some confusion and disillusion among the rank-and-file, especially if the new name focuses their loyalty on someone else. They have spent almost a hundred years distinguishing themselves by their specific devotion to Jehovah. Their only other option would be Jesus, which at least would make them more Christian than they are now. But that flies in the face of decades of putting Jesus in a distant second-place to Jehovah. It's not just a drastic change; in terms of their long-term relevance, it's potentially a dangerous one.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

ForeverAlone: He stated that he wanted to get past JW stuff 12 years ago.

I think he says that and he might even believe it. But I don't think he ever really wanted to. It was always a future thing for him. And he ended up in a comfortable situation, where he was the figurehead of a growing brand that was making him a very nice living, supported mostly by unpaid volunteers. He thought he could continue to misbehave behind the scenes and keep his family in line. Leaving exJW activism would not only involve more effort on his part, it would also involve more risk. Not just financial risk, but his ability to control things at home could be jeapordized.

He can blame the WTS for messing him up, and Kim for ruining his life. But he had a situation that was working out, and could have become very lucrative if he'd just exercised some self-control and perhaps even a smidgen of self-respect. He probably still feels that his big mistake was telling Kim and Producer Bob about his personal life. His mistake was building a house of cards and shifting blame onto the WatchTower, and using that to avoid taking responsibility for his decisions. I don't think he will ever admit this, but until he does he will continue to spiral downwards.

16

Weirdest Jesus I’ve seen yet…

by stuckinlimbo in

jw
friends

.

TonusOH

The text looks a bit awkward as well. 'Let's celebrate his victory over death, as we mark the date of his death.'

It sounds as if they're saying that he conquered death by dying.

10

New light isn't that new outside the USA?

by KerryKing in

all this recent new light etc has everyone talking but none of it is that unusual here in ireland.

i've been df'd for 15 years, my parents started talking to me again when i had my first child nearly 13 years ago now.

last year my sister in law started talking to me again also, at the one meeting i attended last year quite a few people chatted to me and said hello.. i'm just wondering if all this is only a big deal in the usa or is this neck of the woods just particularly rebellious anyway?

TonusOH

It is interesting reading these experiences. I grew up in the Bronx (NYC) in the 70s and 80s, and the congregation I spent most of my time in was led by a strict old-school type who had been in since the 20s or 30s and had traveled with Knorr on some of his trips around the world. Let's put it this way: COs and other traveling bigwigs treated him like the big shot, and never the other way around.

That also meant that dress codes (and behavioral codes) were also strict. Beards? You could get a lecture just for having a five-o'clock shadow. A sister who flashed a knee was likely to hear about it. And so on. I guess I should have realized that we were in our own pocket dimension, because conventions were full of people who would have gotten an earful if they were in our congregation, based on hairstyles and the way they dressed and acted. But I just saw them as outliers, as exceptions to the strict rules that every JW loyally adhered to.

I was in a bubble inside of another bubble!

37

s-395 Adjustments-to-handling-serious-wrongdoing-in-the-congregation

by gavindlt in

this was posted on jw leaks.. my truth's | dad seeking truth.

.

TonusOH

It sounds like they're trying to separate some sins from others, and allowing for the less-severe ones (in their eyes) to be dealt with more mildly. Apostasy will always be the big no-no for them, because for the WTS, apostasy is when you oppose the organization. And that is a hard line for them.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Another thing that I noticed when prepping the transcript of his livestream (which is availale at lloydevans.info): He claimed that his JC was for apostasy. But, in the livestream, he says this:

I write about all of this in The Reluctant Apostate. Not because I had to. I didn't write about all my sex life in The Reluctant Apostate because I had to. I did it because I knew that some Jehovah's Witnesses --namely the judicial committee and members of my family, etc-- knew stuff about me and I didn't want there to be any skeletons in my closet. Any skeletons at all. I didn't want there to be anything anyone could hit me with or weaponize against me at some future date.

He says this when he is preparing his livestream audience for his explanation that, yes, he cheated on his wife and visited sex workers for years, and also reminds them about the time that his wife found out that he was sexting with ~~girls~~ women. So it really seems as if he is saying that he wanted to be up front about his sexual misconduct so that it could not be used against him at a later date. And he specifically refers to his JC and "members of [his] family." That doesn't sound like apostasy to me...