Posts by TonusOH

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

I've explained that- it comes from our brains. We have developed and learned to reason in order to make sense of our surroundings. Having developed that and refined it, we developed logic to make reason more reliable.

How do we know it is reliable? Because those have allowed us to make sense of our world and shape it to our needs. Logic itself is based on simple steps similar to the scientific method: observe, hypothesize, experiment, and so on. The results demonstrate its reliability.

I'm guessing that you're never going to answer my questions.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: If atheists assume accidental explosions, unguided chance, and chaotic chemical reactions explain of the origins of logic

I don't assume that any of those things explain the origins of logic. That is the strawman. I am pointing out that humans can reason, and we have learned to add structure to our reasoning ability, and this is what logic is. You are claiming that there is more to it than that, and that the existence of logic is dependent on the existence of god. How? How does god "design" logic? How does a universe without god make logic impossible?

Sea Breeze: But, that doesn't make any sense because we all have different brain chemistry, IQ's, experiences etc.

Again, I will point out that this is incoherent. There are many ways in which our brains work the same, regardless of differences in chemistry or IQ or experiences. Explain how these differences would make it impossible for two people to use logic. Don't just claim it; that doesn't address the issue at all.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: You have to borrow your assumption from a biblical worldview in order to even argue against it.

You have claimed this many times, but never demonstrated it. Solipsism is not an argument.

You have presupposed that there is a god, and that logic is impossible without it, and any number of other assumptions that you have made no effort to corroborate. And then you make additional claims built on claims that you cannot show to be true. You assign to me a worldview that you think I 'must' have, presumably because focusing on a strawman is easier than explaining and defending your presuppositions.

How can there be a Biblical worldview based on logic, when the god you describe is a logical contradiction? I can presuppose a much more rational and logical god who would fit our universe and our world without having the many logical and rational issues your god has. In other words, my god is better than yours. And since I arrived at it the same way you arrived at yours, yours cannot exist by your own rules. Do you understand the problems with your mass of presuppositions? Do you even want to?

3062

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Wow. Two videos and a canceled Zoom call. He says this is his job and he considers the donations to be his wages. Hey, patrons! Isn't it time you fired this lazy bastard?!?

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: But logic, stays the same in spite of brain differences.

Again, I think you've answered your own question. Logic is one of the ways that we make sense of the world around us. There really aren't many ways of developing methods of logical thinking, so I would not be surprised that different cultures would follow similar paths. As these cultures intermingled, they would further refine those paths.

8

Would Zinaida Portnova Have Made a Good XJW Activist?

by Sea Breeze in

meet 17 year old zinaida portnova:.

she killed over a hundred nazis in a food poisoning incident.

from wikipedia:.

TonusOH

I wonder what kind of management structure they have under the GB. If the GB got wiped out, are there instructions on how to rebuild it? Is there a heirarchy where someone would be recognized as an interim leader, able to make decisions? Or would it be in the hands of the corporation and the corporate officers?

21

New ministry, you don’t give a witness

by Mikejw in

there are assignments on the life and ministry school now where they are suggested to just talk to people without giving a witness.. they are supposed to practice starting conversations with strangers and listening to them to talk about whatever they want to talk about .

there is an assignment this week where the conversation ends without giving a witness.

jws don’t look like jws anymore and now they don’t actually preach.. you could get bearded men with sweaters or other such tops and women in pants or slacks coming upto you in the park or on the street and starting a conversation with you.. then you hear them listening to you and talking about whatever they think that you wanted to talk about .

TonusOH

Sounds like they want to become more like a typical church. And informal witnessing is good, it means you have conversations with people and get to know them, instead of just throwing a sales pitch at them early on a weekend morning. This also means getting to know people outside of the congregation bubble, and maybe developing healthy friendships with "worldly" people and realizing that it's really nice to be able to act like a normal person.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: why is logic across cultures, languages and time periods always the same if it is a human construct as you say?

It seems to me that you answered your own question. It's like asking "why is spoken language always done with the mouth, if it is a human construct?" Logic is a method of reasoning, and reasoning is a way that we interpret our world. Logic just applies a stricter set of rules to make our reasoning more reliable. It's a natural outcome of humans applying their thinking capabilities. It should always be the same, every time it is developed.

Please explain how an intellect would have "designed logic." Help me make sense of this claim, seeing as you consider it an important basis for determining if a god exists. Try to avoid "how else" statements. You must have a clear explanation for how this is done, right?

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Logic is neither happenstance nor design. It's a human construct. The apologist creates a false dichotomy in order to --again-- promote the idea that a god is necessary. But it's just another presupposition. There is no way to demonstrate that logic must be happenstance or "designed." It's nonsense. A way to attempt to push the burden of proof to the non-believer when you do not have any answers for your own proposition.

But hey-- let's accept that a god is necessary and that the universe is designed. The likeliest god is not any of the ones we have heard of. None of those are demonstrable. This bait-and-switch tactic, where the apologist tries to sneak in his god for the necessary god, is dishonest and demonstrates that you cannot get any farther than sloppy arguments for 'design.' Because you've got to account for all of these "designs," not just the ones that are convenient for the argument you're trying to make.

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

TonusOH

If they had the truth, and if this truth was indeed a beacon of light that dispersed darkness, they would not have to disfellowship anyone. Or even preach very often, since such truths would draw people to them.

If god wanted everyone to be saved, they'd be saved. If you have to work this hard to get people to learn the truth, maybe you don't have any truth to teach.