Posts by TonusOH

29

Why does it matter whether or not Armageddon is near?

by TxNVSue2023 in

why does it matter whether or not the end of the world ( (armageddon) is near?

if it was next week, next year, next decade, next century?

what is to be gained by knowing how close or far it is?

TonusOH

TxNVSue2023: What is to be gained by knowing how close or far it is?

You are talking about the end of the old world, which would lead to the birth of the new. This would be a moment unequalled in human history, when humanity was finally freed from suffering and death. What is gained by knowing that it is close or far? Everything! People will live very different lives if they think the end is very close than if they think it is still far off.

The WTS knows this. When people think the end is very close, they are more active. They donate more. They preach more, which leads to more people joining because they think the end is near and they want to hedge their bets. This leads to growth, which leads to more money coming to HQ. One might think that the WTS uses this as a fundraising tactic, if one were a cynic.

TXNVSue2023: Exactly everybody dies. So what difference does it make if they have money & a retirement or not?

This should be obvious: until you die, you are alive. And while we are alive, we like to have all the comfort and security we can gather. Planning is always a good thing, but especially so as we get older. Once I'm dead, these things stop mattering. Until then, they matter quite a lot.

48

What's the Worst Advice You Heard of an Elder Giving Someone?

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

i believe an an elder told someone who's daughter (14 yo) became sexually active with a 26 year old in the neighborhood, that maybe they should get married.

so, they did... with parental consent.

he turned out to be a ex-convict who shot his first wife in the face with a shotgun.

TonusOH

I remember that I believed that I would not graduate high school before the end came. 1986 was the year I graduated, and I think that was the year the UN promoted as "the Year of Peace and Security." The WTS made note of this, and I remember many brothers and sisters mentioning it, because it looked like a clear reference to 1 Thessalonians 5:3.

I think that you go through these disappointments and you repeat the party line ("the GB did not specifically say this was the end, no one knows the day or hour, and so on"). But each time, you lose something. You might not think it, you might not notice it, but somewhere in your mind you wonder if these men are really getting any insight from god through the holy spirit.

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

TonusOH

Mikejw: JWs are actually very good at this. Perhaps the best international organisation at looking after their own.

That is a very narrow category. Most international organizations do not limit themselves to only helping a very small and very specific group of people, or even just prioritizing them. So they are the best in a category that doesn't have many members because it doesn't make them look particularly good.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: Is there some rule of logic that states that it is "wrong" to examine where the brain comes from to determine if it is a reliable, trustworty and accurate guide ?

There isn't. But you are asking me to defend something I did not claim. My explanations are, as far as I can see, complete. They do not require a god, and they do not require a big bang. Either of those is an unnecessary addition to the explanation, and would require justification on their own.

It is as if you had asked me why a rubber ball bounces, and I explained that one of the properties of rubber is elasticity, and this causes the ball to bounce. That explanation is complete, and requires no further additions. If someone wants to prove that rubber was a divine creation, they are welcome to explain themselves. If the explanation is a demand that I show how the big bang created rubber, I would point out that my explanation does not require this. Rubber balls bounce because rubber is bouncy. Humans use logic because our brains are capable of rational thought via deduction and inference. Anything beyond that must be proven by the person making the additional claim.

As for the atheist worldview: I have mentioned before my issues with big bang cosmology, which is that the explanations do not make intuitive sense to me. I accept that scientists have a model, and that they have explanations, but those are complex and not easy to grasp. I do not claim that they are wrong; I accept that I may simply be ignorant or lack sufficient education. This is fine. The world works as it does, and while I am open to the possibility that gods exist, I have not yet found one that makes sense. Indeed, the gods that make the most sense to me are ones that we will never get to know, or even know of.

If the atheist worldview demands that I accept things that I cannot accept, then I don't share the atheist worldview. And I can't defend something I don't believe, not very effectively, anyway.

3051

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Debra02, the channel is https://www.youtube.com/@lloydevansinfo

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: Is that what you are saying gives you confidence in the reliability of logic?

No. I explained what gives me confidence in the reliability of logic. It is literally in the post you are replying to. That is it. That is all. "Where the brain comes from" is your addition to the conversation. If where the brain comes from is an issue, explain why.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

I've explained that- it comes from our brains. We have developed and learned to reason in order to make sense of our surroundings. Having developed that and refined it, we developed logic to make reason more reliable.

How do we know it is reliable? Because those have allowed us to make sense of our world and shape it to our needs. Logic itself is based on simple steps similar to the scientific method: observe, hypothesize, experiment, and so on. The results demonstrate its reliability.

I'm guessing that you're never going to answer my questions.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: If atheists assume accidental explosions, unguided chance, and chaotic chemical reactions explain of the origins of logic

I don't assume that any of those things explain the origins of logic. That is the strawman. I am pointing out that humans can reason, and we have learned to add structure to our reasoning ability, and this is what logic is. You are claiming that there is more to it than that, and that the existence of logic is dependent on the existence of god. How? How does god "design" logic? How does a universe without god make logic impossible?

Sea Breeze: But, that doesn't make any sense because we all have different brain chemistry, IQ's, experiences etc.

Again, I will point out that this is incoherent. There are many ways in which our brains work the same, regardless of differences in chemistry or IQ or experiences. Explain how these differences would make it impossible for two people to use logic. Don't just claim it; that doesn't address the issue at all.

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: You have to borrow your assumption from a biblical worldview in order to even argue against it.

You have claimed this many times, but never demonstrated it. Solipsism is not an argument.

You have presupposed that there is a god, and that logic is impossible without it, and any number of other assumptions that you have made no effort to corroborate. And then you make additional claims built on claims that you cannot show to be true. You assign to me a worldview that you think I 'must' have, presumably because focusing on a strawman is easier than explaining and defending your presuppositions.

How can there be a Biblical worldview based on logic, when the god you describe is a logical contradiction? I can presuppose a much more rational and logical god who would fit our universe and our world without having the many logical and rational issues your god has. In other words, my god is better than yours. And since I arrived at it the same way you arrived at yours, yours cannot exist by your own rules. Do you understand the problems with your mass of presuppositions? Do you even want to?

3051

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Wow. Two videos and a canceled Zoom call. He says this is his job and he considers the donations to be his wages. Hey, patrons! Isn't it time you fired this lazy bastard?!?