Posts by TonusOH

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

TonusOH

I find it to be similar to how people describe prayer. If you pray for something and it happened, your prayer was answered. If you pray for something and it did not happen, your prayer was still answered. Maybe nothing happened because god is teaching you patience. Maybe something different happened because that is what god saw as the best outcome for you. Maybe you got the opposite because god needed you to learn a lesson. And so on. No matter the outcome, prayer worked.

So the GB will say the same about god's influence on their decisions and statements. It may have been wrong, but it was the right thing to do/say at that time, proving that it was god's guidance. It may have been wrong, but it led to people acting in a way that helped grow the organization, proving that god was guiding them. And so on. Russell or Rutherford once used that misdirection to claim that something they got wrong was good, because it led to a culling of those whose spirituality was weak. That's an insane thing to say about people you were supposed to be saving! But if it got them off the hook, it was good enough.

I've said it before- the most effective liars lie to themselves the most.

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

TonusOH

I always believed that they prayed to Jehovah, and god would use his holy spirit to guide their discussions and influence their decisions. This would happen in a manner that couldn't be detected, you just had to trust that it was happening. One way to know that it was happening was that the guidance from the GB would be reliable and true. Which is why it's such a problem when their guidance is so unreliable that they must state that they are fallible and can get things wrong.

Look, we know that they are 'just fallible men who can make mistakes.' But they claim to be the head of an organization that is led by Jehovah himself and they frequently remind the rank-and-file of the importance of obeying the GB no matter what. If you claim this and you still get things wrong, then there are two possible reasons for it. One: Jehovah is either being deceitful or incompetent. Two: You don't have god's favor and your claims are false.

I'm kinda leaning towards two.

3056

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

My mistake, I was thinking about how he was using her brother's death to give weight to his own threats of suicide. But you are right, he did not seem at all depressed or confused in those letters (which would have been written when he was supposedly struggling with a mental health crisis). He definitely was not concerned with his wife's feelings or her mental health. He wants to hide behind mental health issues and self-harm because it suits him and gives him a way out of having to deal with the mess he created. And frankly, that's disgusting.

3056

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I agree. For one, I don't think he has ever been suicidal. I think he uses that and "mental health" in order to avoid having to own up to what he has done (and is doing). During the livestream he dodged a couple of accusations/questions by complaining that he was in the throes of a "mental health crisis." He's not dealing with a mental health problem.

It sounds like he wasn't above using his wife's trauma over her brother's suicide to maintain control over her. And as SBF said, he didn't seem concerned about the possibility that someone else's suicide was a result of how they interpreted his "taking a break" video. He uses the topics of mental health and self-harm as a means to manipulate people. To his supporters: THIS is the person you are sending money to.

20

Pioneer Hours

by Etude in

does anyone know how many hours were required to be a pioneer back in or around 1970?.

etude..

TonusOH

I remember in the late 70s and early 80s that a regular pioneer was 90 hours and an auxiliary pioneer was 75. I think I have that right. Before I faded, it had changed to 75 and 60? Or perhaps that was later.

3056

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

A gullible person.

3056

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

The people still paying are probably the real die-hards, the ones who refuse to hear anything bad about him and have memory-holed the livestream or rationalized it the way Evans did. The slow drain that is happening now is probably due more to the lack of content and broken promises. I'm sure that there are quite a few of them whose support is contigent on actually getting something for their money. A few more months like April and they might begin to leave.

Once they are gone, we'll see who the real hardcore supporters are. I'm also curious to see how many vacation trips he will be able to take the rest of this year.

13

1,500 Days since Stephen Lett said this:

by Chevelle in

"so the events unfolding around us are making clearer than ever that we’re living in the final part of the last days.

undoubtedly the final part of the final part of the last days.

shortly before the last day of the last days.

TonusOH

So much for their explanation that they never make any definitive statements and it is the rank-and-file who read too much into their words sometimes.

19

Bible study

by GregT in

i used to attend the meetings and was baptized about 30 years ago but i haven't gone to the meetings or associated with any one i new from the congregation for around 15 - 20 years.

i want to get back to studying but i am not ready to go to any meetings.

other than the watchtower and awake what book is used these days for people just starting to study with jehovah's witnesses?.

TonusOH

I don't think the WatchTower publications are designed to get you to think critically. Nor do they seem to like people who try to get others to do so. They still want you to read and remember the info in the book so that it shapes your views for you. Analyzing or questioning what they write is not encouraged.

15

Watchtower Campus

by Gorb in

jw
friends

information about the new watchtower campus, ready in 2027.. https://www.brplusa.com/projects/watchtower-bible-tract-society-new-headquarters-campus-development.

g..

TonusOH

Sounds innovative... and a bit costly.