As entertaining as that sounds, I would be worried about an ex-elder who started divulging information given in confidence. But the thought that Evans might suffer a few sleepless nights over the possibility is amusing.
TonusOH
JoinedPosts by TonusOH
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3042
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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75
God won't lift a finger to help you.
by nicolaou insea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
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TonusOH
Konagirl: God is the presiding judge of His court. We aren’t. But the accuser, the devil would like to be.
God is not only the judge, he is also the jury and the executioner. What the devil wants is irrelevant, since God is the only one who can take final action against anyone and everyone else. We see this in the book of Job-- the devil admits that he is unable to lay a finger on Job, because God has protected him.
More to the point, God does not have to allow any of this. Since he knew that Job was a genuinely good person, he should have dismissed the devil's request. Since God is fully capable of forgiving us at any time, his demand for blood sacrifices is unnecessary. One must wonder what it says about this god, that he allows suffering and even demands it as part of the process of forgiveness.
And we must also note that the story of Job opens with God bringing up the subject of this one man and his pious devotion. It seems to me that Satan could have ended the conversation by pointing out that, in a world full of humans, Yahweh had managed to find only a single one that earned his approval. What is Job's reward for being unique amongst humanity for his loyalty and goodness? Being put through a series of truly horrible experiences, including the loss of his children.
Getting rewarded afterwards still doesn't negate his realization that his life could be upended at any moment, no matter how devoted he was to serving god. This is the nature of Jehovah, a being whose nature is unchanging. This is god, forever.
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75
God won't lift a finger to help you.
by nicolaou insea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
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TonusOH
Konagirl: the scriptures tell us that it was Satan, who demanded to “sift” Job as “wheat”.
According to the story, Satan asked to be allowed to visit those horrors on Job, his family, and his servants. God, who could easily (and reasonably) have told him "no", agreed to allow the Devil to massacre people and livestock, strike Job with an illness, have his wife advise him to 'curse god and die' and sent so-called friends to break him mentally. Job only expressed his belief that god would explain why this had all happened. It is a reasonable thing to think, if Jehovah was the kind of person Job assumed him to be.
But, no... Jehovah excoriates Job for having the temerity to expect an explanation for the terrifying experiences he had been put through and the suffering that he was, even then, still enduring. Job was forced to apologize to god for this apparent display of hubris. Only then did god restore what had been brutally taken from Job (although his first ten children and countless servants remained dead). Job would now spend the rest of his days knowing that he had better be unquestioningly loyal to Jehovah, because who knows what fate might suddenly and unexpectedly befall him and his family?
This is another example of the problem with the way we excuse god's behavior as always good. God can take care of you and give you an amazing life, and then suddenly rip it all away and put you through the most traumatic experience, for no particular reason. And if you dare to wonder why you were made to suffer in such a terrible manner, he might also dress you down and demand an apology. And also, he won't take responsibility for any of it. It's your fault. Or someone else's. Not his.
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Meet up?
by KIMSILVIO inhi 👋 .
just wanted to leave a message saying hi 👋 i’m going to england in november, if anyone wants to catch up or organise a meet up with me, let me know via dm or twitter dm .
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TonusOH
I'm afraid it's too long of a drive for me.
But I hope you have a safe and fun trip.
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75
God won't lift a finger to help you.
by nicolaou insea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
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TonusOH
I think we are able to understand the concepts of omni-traits, to coin a term. But we need to define what this means for any specific individual. The Bible only vaguely describes Yahweh's traits; the descriptions of god as all-knowing or all-powerful are later interpretations and come across as conveniences. And attributing such traits to Yahweh creates problems that I think cannot be resolved, which is when we turn to the incomprehensibility of god as a way to deal with them.
However... until we get to one of those difficult issues, we seem to have no problem at all comprehending god. We have a clear basis for judging his character and actions as long as they fit into an acceptable moral framework. When his actions fall into a gray area, we decide that he is inscrutable. That we cannot fathom his ways. That he exists on a higher moral and ethical plane, and thus our judgments do not apply.
If god is inscrutable, then we do him a disservice by trying to explain his actions. This leaves us in the uncomfortable position of realizing that god can do or be anything, because our notions of good/right/moral/etc do not apply to him. When combined with the actions he takes (according to the Bible), the picture we get is a concerning one. His quick temper and willingness to solve problems by killing should make the believer very nervous.
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Gaslighting older JW couples to avoid BLAME
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/kvdqtookscu?si=fuqhj44cokmdzkt7.
one of the greatest issues facing the organization today is couples that sacrificed family life or businesses opportunity in order to preach the many dates the watchtower set in the .
past only to be betrayed in recent years as the watchtower is moving away from date setting.
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TonusOH
I think that 1975 taught the GB that setting a hard date was a very bad idea. Even in the runup to 1975, they often tried to hedge their bets by claiming that they weren't making any such prediction. I guess that they understood that they would need to point to those claims if things did not happen as expected.
I think that they switched to pointing at 'signs.' Like 1986, when the UN proclaimed that year to be the year of peace and security. For the WTS, that was a clear reference to Paul's letter stating that the cry of peace and security would be the catalyst for the end. But, like any other signs that they pointed to, nothing happened. If there were more natural disasters than usual, they would remark about it. If there was political upheaval, they would point it out.
Sign after sign after sign that we were at the very end... and nothing would happen. I don't even recall noticing the 1995 change, but by then the doubts had accumulated enough that I was beginning to fade even though I didn't want it or even realize it.
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Pomo because of Proclaimers book, 1995 generation change and Daniel prophecy book
by Gorb inhave some time thinking about my recent and less recent personal history because of the summer holiday.. the 90's crossed my mind.
the years i became pimo.
a friend, a room mate during the 1993 moscow international convention, went to university.
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TonusOH
It's a lot easier to accept the wackiness when you are convinced the WTS has the truth. And even moreso if you are raised a JW, which means you only know their interpretation (and have been conditioned to reject any other interpretation). Because JWs are forbidden to question the GB's interpretation, it can be tough to entertain any doubts. And even when you have doubts, you worry that maybe it's you.
But the further you get from the mindset that they cannot be wrong, the easier it is to spot the odd statements and teachings. And some of the things they say are outrageous enough that even a loyal JW feels a bit uncomfortable when they read it. That was where the doubts began for me-- one or two statements in the magazines that I tried to accept, but they nagged me.
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Why Is Watchtower (Supposedly a Family Friendly Christian Publisher) Obsessed with Oral Sex?
by Sea Breeze inif you do a search on the wt website and type in "oral sex", you will get 69 results.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=oral+sex&p=par&r=occ&st=a .
why does the wt.
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TonusOH
If you do a search on the WT website and type in "oral sex", you will get 69 results.
Nice!
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How many JW in the 1920's
by xaminewt ini'm trying to find out how many jw there were globally in 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927 and 1928. the watchtower of 1926 says that there were 25,000 in attendance at the magdeburg convention for the public address, but the same watchtower say that one the last day of the convention there were 15,000 present, so i assume at least 10,000 were interested persons - non jw.
the watchtower 1955 says: "for this year of 1927 the number in attendance at the spring memorial internationally was 88,544, yet of these only some 18,602 were active as house-to-house kingdom announcers".
these statistics would seem to imply that the majority of jw in 1926 were at the magdeburg convention.
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TonusOH
It is already morphing. The recent changes may be relatively minor, but they are designed to keep people in (or, in the case of the recent updates on shunning, to avoid potential sanction). And they will continue to change, since they have their expensive campus project. I would not be surprised to see significant changes in the next 5-10 years, as they try to keep people in and keep the dollars flowing.
Perhaps a change in attitude towards higher education?
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75
God won't lift a finger to help you.
by nicolaou insea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
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TonusOH
I agree with the idea that the only way to deal with the problem of evil is to either judge those who commit evil acts, or to limit their ability to commit evil acts. A secular society can only do these things to an imperfect degree.
An all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful deity, on the other hand, could easily have created a human society populated by intelligent beings who could not commit evil acts, or even entertain evil thoughts. What is the downside of this scenario?
The only possible outcome of allowing evil is that people suffer, both in the moment and for an eternity afterwards. What is the benefit of allowing people to think evil thoughts and do evil things?