Posts by TonusOH

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

God's own definition of himself does not seem to change the problem, because his actions don't align with someone who is compassionate, gracious, slow to anger, loving, faithful, and so on. Indeed, those descriptions are followed by the claim that he will unjustly burden children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren for the sins of their forebears. Sins which wouldn't exist in a world created by a loving and compassionate being.

The only change is that we can now affirm that scripture is at odds with itself, which reinforces the point I made.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

Halcon: From beginning to end, God offers reward or punishment.

Had he wished, he could have only offered reward. Not only does he offer punishment, he offers punishment that will never end. He will keep you alive after death in order to make sure you keep being punished. He understood that this would happen, and he chose to create that universe anyway.

This would be consistent, if he was defined as a sadist. But he is defined as moral, merciful, good, kind, loving, and so on. He is defined as wishing for all to be saved and enjoy eternal bliss. This definition is in direct contrast with the actions he is purported to have taken and the universe he is believed to have designed. That does not make sense.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

Halcon: I've yet to read a scripture where heaven is described as anything similar to suffering.

Sounds like scripture is at odds with the way god is described, then. This, also, is a problem with the Abrahamic god and the religions spawned from belief in it. A god whose nature is contradictory and for whom the supporting text is also inconsistent is unlikely to be real.

These inconsistencies and contradictions would be much more concerning if this god was real. Any possible explanation for those inconsistencies leads us down a dark road, and the understanding that we are this being's helpless playthings should terrify us. We try to paper over those concerns by insisting that he is nothing like this, which sounds a lot like what an abuse victim would say about her abuser.

I don't deny the possibility that a god (or gods) may exist, as this is something impossible to disprove. But I think many gods can be easily dismissed because they don't make sense.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

Halcon: But what can anyone do about it?

Exactly. The Christian god is a being with the power to have created a universe where everyone enjoyed comfort, happiness, and bliss from beginning to end. But he instead chose to create one full of suffering, one where a great many people have suffered, and where many more will suffer for all eternity, with no respite. A universe where even he suffered-- an experience that was wholly unnecessary and only possible because he arranged it himself.

The Christian god, as described, is a being who likes suffering. Who revels in it. Think about the requirements for being allowed into heaven. How many of those involve suffering, in some form or another? Those who do not suffer enough in life will suffer endlessly in the afterlife. I have to wonder if heaven is anything like what we imagine it to be. What would heaven be, for a being who is so utterly enthralled by suffering?

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

Halcon: Apparently we must choose a side.

What is gained by allowing us to choose? Why would he create a universe where there are two choices, when one of those choices leads to endless suffering?

In a universe where there is no choice, everyone is happy forever. In the universe that he designed and created, millons --if not billions-- of souls will suffer forever. In the universe that he designed and created, there will always be suffering. Always. This is the universe that he chose to create.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

I think the problem is that god is revealed by his words and actions. If we assume that these descriptions of him are true, we are still left with a universe where more people will suffer eternally than will enjoy heaven, even though this god expressed his desire for all to be saved.

He stated he wanted only good outcomes, but a very large number of people will suffer endlessly. What does this tell us about him? Even if we accept every premise you propose, we are left with a universe where suffering is far more common than happiness. What does this tell us about the being who created the universe and everything in it?

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

He subjected himself to an experience that he was free to escape at any moment, and which he knew he would transcend afterwards, returning to his position as the most powerful being in all of existence. Having somehow understood the human condition... he arranged for many of his 'children' to suffer eternally, with no possible way to end the torment. An outcome that is so common that he, himself, admitted that few would manage to avoid it.

It's almost as if he enjoys knowing that there are sentient beings out there who will spend eternity in the deepest depths of utter misery. And that he enjoys it so much that he made sure that a lot of them would end up this way.

32

The King of the North as you Never Heard ity Explained Before

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/w32nome-k20?si=a8bhxh5tjrkomgzq.

rather than seeing the king of the north as the final opponent of god’s people, i propose that daniel 11 points to a completely different figure.

while the watchtower society focuses on the struggle between these two kings, they overlook a third entity mentioned in verse 40, but let’s ready this verse first from the new world translation.

TonusOH

blondie: at one time around 2020, some "Christian" religions suggested Trump was the Antichrist.

I never did understand how Trump held on to his following among evangelicals. I can understand why they would have voted for him instead of Clinton or Biden or (lol) Harris. But this is a man whose life doesn't track with their beliefs. When he was recorded making his "grab them by the pussy" comment, I thought the far more damning part was before that, when he talked about trying to seduce a married woman for no other reason than wanting sex.

And here we are today, and he's standing at a pulpit talking about how god wanted him to be President, or whatever it is he was talking about. The fact that he hasn't been incinerated by a bolt of lightning tells me that god either doesn't exist, or is eternally patient.

2

HAS THE WATCHTOWER GONE SOFT ON HOMOSEXUALITY?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/trt197bko98?si=l_5wnlasm-aaxlh1.

once upon a time, the watchtower had no qualms about making its stance on homosexuality crystal clear.

back in the 1970s, they didn't just oppose it—they called it "detestable.

TonusOH

They seem to be giving in to political and societal pressure on a number of doctrines and policies, to say nothing of financial pressure on at least one or two. And with a governing body that looks like it will become younger over the next decade, I can only imagine that this trend will continue.

135

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

TonusOH

I like the idea that somewhere, out there, the Tree of Life sits undiscovered. Just waiting for someone to eat from it so that their life can be... extended? Fortified? Maintained? Who knows! I guess they had better make the next Indiana Jones movie before Harrison Ford finally succumbs to his lack of access to it.