TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  17

  How Murderers In the Congregation are handled

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't have the link but i am trying to post this, this is from a previous post on jwn.

  watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. dear brothers:.. we received your letter of december 17 in which you inquire about handling a situation involving a brother who has been guilty of serious violation of the law in the past.. you explained that you received information indicating that this brother ?committed several murders and crimes before his baptism.

  you ask if law obligates some action on our part.

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  TonusOH

  What he does about paying his debt to Society is largely up to him and his conscience. Since he is apparently a fugitive from the law, he obviously would not qualify for any extra privileges of service in the congregation.

  That's pretty insane. I get the part about confidentiality, but they should have pointed out that it is more of a technicality than anything else. They have taught that Jehovah wanted "mercy, not sacrifices" and that Jesus gave examples of times when people violated divine law and God allowed it, because sometimes there was a greater good to be served and following the law mindlessly was not what God intended.

  Yet, here they are, saying that a fugitive multiple-murderer's own judgment should be relied upon to settle the matter, and until then make sure he doesn't handle a microphone or lead a prayer. That would be bad!
  
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  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  I'm guessing that the lawyer gave him advice on how to proceed, and may well have advised against it. But if Evans is aware of what he is doing and insists on proceeding, the lawyer can take the case if he doesn't feel that it's unethical to do so (ie, he has explained everything and the client wants to take action anyway). If the worst that is likely to happen is that he'll lose the case and have spent some money on lawyers for no gain, that probably happens all the time and wouldn't be a big deal.

  As for the potential fallout from such an action, that seems as if it would be Evans's fault, not the lawyer's. His insistence on making everything public, combined with his inability to control himself, is creating a mess that is entirely of his own making.
  
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  22

  1914- responsible for the biggest decrease in JW's?

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  theres a couple of threads re: 1914 on the board right now and it got me thinking.. the jw doctrine of the 1914 generation is a key doctrine , yet it is probably the number one reason most have left over the decades.. 1975- within one generation.. 1995 - new understanding of the word generation.. 2010- overlapping generation first mentioned- some anointed survive armageddon.. 2015- infamous overlapping generations chart featuring david splane.. its obvious the org is changing the goalposts and constantly trying to squeeze as much time as they can before they have to abandon this altogether.

  or will they come up with something new?.

  does anyone else think this ever changing doctrine is responsible for the biggest loss of members?.

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  TonusOH

  I don't have a clue about the actual numbers, but I do think it was a mistake to return to the "generation" teaching after they effectively let it go in 1995. It was a way of admitting that the teaching was wrong, and they could still cling to 1914 as the year Christ quietly returned and began the last days. It would hurt them in terms of recruiting if they could not create the old sense of urgency, but the "generation" teaching was dead at that point.

  Going back and redefining it was a way to imply that there is a deadline that can be counted, in the hopes of creating that old sense of urgency. But it's a complicated and messy concept, and you can no longer just say "the generation that saw these things is getting older" because (A)you already abandoned that idea and (B)everyone knows you can just extend it again. So you cannot create the urgency this way, but you also set off a lot of people's BS meters. There is only so much most people can take before the doubts become a real problem.
  
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  8

  Do JWs trust and rely on bad reviews? Why should they? How could it be coherent?

  by psyco in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are taught that all bad reviews about them made by exjws are false and sick, so they must not read or listen to them.. so, when jws decide on joining, applying, or buying whatever product, service or organization: are they reading and listening only to good reviews about people still satisfied with that product, service, or organization because they consider false and sick all bad reviews made by people who abandoned that?

  do they trust and rely on all bad reviews reported in documentaries, on internet, on tv, on magazines etc.

  about people who left scientology, who left that house, who left that job position, who left that hotel, who left that restaurant, who left that medical treatment etc.?

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  TonusOH

  How can a newspaper be good enough to cite in a Watchtower publication, but the same newspaper be condemned as declared forbidden reading?

  I think it depends on how your worldview is shaped. If the idea is that the whole world is effectively against you (because it is under the control of God's main enemy), then you can claim that any good news has to be legitimate, since Satan is loathe to allow anything positive to be said. Conversely, bad/negative news or information cannot be true, since Satan would want to put the JWs in the worst possible light, and doesn't hesitate to lie.

  If you point out the absurdity of this concept, you are likely to be bombarded with a flood of "what about this" objections and cherry-picked examples that only prove the point to someone who is already inclined to believe it. If your worldview is that Satan controls the world and the media, and is determined to bring the WTS down, you are willing to accept some very thin premises in order to maintain that point of view. Confirmation bias is a very powerful thing.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  If he had a good business sense, he would price that second book very cheap and promote it constantly, then use that book to promote the larger and more costly (and unintentionally funny) book.

  Of course, if he had good business sense, he wouldn't have done any of the dozen things he's done over the past few months. So close, and yet so far.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  Sometimes lawyers take a case without really knowing what they are getting into.

  Well, many people have experienced this when working with Evans in activism, it would be no surprise if his lawyer were to discover the same thing. Hopefully, they're not working pro bono.

  But it would be hilarious if he ever asked his lawyers to add themselves to the litigation.
  
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  27

  Oct 8 1966 Awake! PDF-- pushes 1975 date

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  details about how to download the october 8, 1966 awake!

  magazine pdf will appear at the end of this post.

  background.

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  TonusOH

  The book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God

  Am I the only one who thought that was a really awkward title? What does it even mean?

  As for predicting the time of the end, it's such a common thing throughout the history of Christianity that it boggles the mind. The very book that they venerate as being inspired by God tells them (the words coming from God Himself!) that no one else knows the day or time and that no one should even be worrying about the day or time!

  The whole idea was for believers to remain steadfast in their faith and not waver, for fear that the day of judgment might be upon them unexpectedly. Now, that itself can seem pretty cruel, but the fact is that it is laid out very clearly. Yet for centuries, men have tried to come up with specific dates for the end. It's insanely tone-deaf.
  
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  15

  2022 - 1914 = ?

  by fedup in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  obviously not the orgs brightest moment for teaching that the generation of 1914 would be alive to see paradise.

  forget the "new light" that bought them an extra 100 years, which if any other religion would've done this, the org would scream false religion.

  the fact is that for 75 years this #1 recruiting message from the society was a lie.. i asked a current jw to get a calculator and do the math: 2022 - 1914 = an angry reaction.

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  TonusOH

  It's a blend of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. We can easily see the absurdity in a situation when it is being promoted by someone we are not associated with, yet we bend our reasoning into very odd shapes when we want to defend the absurd things that we have invested ourselves into.

  I think it's more difficult today to get away with trying to memory-hole inconvenient facts about their past, but the WTS has no other choice if they want to keep the grift going. But they managed to make 1914 (as the date of the end, not the beginning of the end), 1918, 1925 and 1975 disappear. Making 1914 and the generation teaching go away will take some work- I think they made a big mistake trying to rehab it with the overlapping generations explanation. There have to be a lot of people who saw that as the last straw, or as the first crack in the foundation.
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  19

  What have you forgotten you ever even knew?

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at a certain point, as the years tick by, you start to realize that you have forgotten a lot of things.

  typically, something you learned, some knowledge or skill you used to have, that you just haven't used for so long you no longer remember anything but that you once knew it.. i saw an article about electrical resistors the other day, and how the colored bands signify the rating.

  now all i remember is that i used to know it, and that resistors do something with, erm, electricity ...

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  TonusOH

  What is the old joke? "Memory is the second thing you lose as you get older. I can't recall what the first is..."
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  What should we get him for his birthday?

  Send him 3,000 euro in Monopoly money. It's the proper way to settle the litigation.

  As for the background in his bunker, I think he wanted to show that he had a large collection of WT books and material, but also wanted to make it fancier than just a bookcase lined with books. What he ended up with looks like a shrine. Any of the GB would be happy to shoot a video with that as a backdrop.

  But I would advise them to wipe the seat thoroughly with a damp rag before they sit down.