Posts by TonusOH

57

Court case Jehovah's Witnesses Norway kicked off

by AndersonsInfo in

https://cne.news/article/2827-court-case-jehovah-s-witnesses-norway-kicked-off.

norwegian jehovah's witnesses are in court this wednesday and thursday.

they are fighting the government's decision to remove their registration as a religious community.. .

TonusOH

Compare disfellowshipping someone to a jail sentence: the DF'ed person is free to move about as he pleases, but his friends and family cannot speak to him, lest they also be DF'ed. The jailed person is not free to move about as he pleases, but his friends and family can continue to have contact with him, without adverse risk.

Compare shunning to a restraining order: a restraining order can be requested by a person who feels threatened by another and seeks a legal ruling to force that person to stay outside of a proscribed distance, or avoid certain methods of interaction. Shunning is mandated by an organization, is not done at the request of an individual, and cannot be rescinded by anyone but the organization.

If the government of the Netherlands had never allowed clergy to sign marriage licenses and had not agreed to subsidize religions with an annual stipend, JWs would still be able to practice their religion, including the ability to disfellowship and shun their members. As the WTS claims to be no part of this world, they should not really have an issue with this ruling, and should hold it up as an example of how they remain separate from the world unlike other religious organizations.

76

Submission and stupid rules

by Lady Lee in

what a load of crap this stupid belief was.

i'll give you a couple of examples.

i was the sign language interpreter for our congregation and there was about 15-20 deaf who regularly showed up.

TonusOH

Lee Marsh: Men have it hard.

Pun intended? 😇

57

Court case Jehovah's Witnesses Norway kicked off

by AndersonsInfo in

https://cne.news/article/2827-court-case-jehovah-s-witnesses-norway-kicked-off.

norwegian jehovah's witnesses are in court this wednesday and thursday.

they are fighting the government's decision to remove their registration as a religious community.. .

TonusOH

But they would still have the freedom to practice their religion. Taking away benefits that have no impact on their freedom to practice doesn't seem like tyranny. How is that the same as jail or restraining orders?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

BORG OFF: Nicoloau if that was true of ray franz would you want Cof C taken off the shelf so no one can read it?

I don't think people have been asking for Evans's book to be restricted or his videos taken down. We want people to know who and what he is so that they can make decisions about him with a full understanding of what they are getting into. If Ray Franz was anything like Evans, I would want to know that before offering to promote his work or support it financially.

Helping people is great, and deserves some gratitude. Being a terrible husband and father is awful, and deserves some condemnation. Treating fellow exJWs like garbage is awful, and people should know about that if they are thinking about giving him money. None of that means that his book or videos need to disappear. Or that he needs to stop producing books or videos. But I think it's fair to temper the good with the bad, and in his case the bad is really, really bad.

57

Court case Jehovah's Witnesses Norway kicked off

by AndersonsInfo in

https://cne.news/article/2827-court-case-jehovah-s-witnesses-norway-kicked-off.

norwegian jehovah's witnesses are in court this wednesday and thursday.

they are fighting the government's decision to remove their registration as a religious community.. .

TonusOH

The court won't force the JWs to end the shunning practice, will they? They are taking away some benefits (including a healthy amount of annual money) but they will not ban JWs from meeting and preaching and baptizing converts, right?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

"Show me on the doll where Lloyd Evans touched you" might be just a bit too on the nose, there.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

BORG OFF: Going through someone’s accounts without them there to give an explanation is a total waste of time

I wouldn't call it a total waste of time. Business/finance reporting is meant to be structured in such a way as to provide some level of transparency. So you can get at least a few answers. And while it helps to have someone there to explain any discrepancies or provide explanations, I would not trust Evans to be honest or forthcoming.

57

Reading the Watchtower and Awake! is like getting a college education!

by kairos in

anybody remember hearing this?.

--.

is that comment in print anywhere?.

TonusOH

A real education is, in part, about teaching you how to learn. How to research, how to measure information and compare things you discover and learn, how to assemble disparate bits into a conclusion, and so on. The WTS does not teach people to do this, and they sometimes warn against it. I can remember a couple of times when they warned against critical thinking ("higher criticism" I think they called it), seeing it as a way that a university education could lead one astray.

If your beliefs cannot stand up to scrutiny then they must be revised or abandoned. The organization should never take the approach that some avenues of inquiry are to be avoided. Instead, those should be investigated and judged. That is not what they want. They want you to accept what you are told, and then limit who you listen to so you only accept their claims. That is not a proper way to teach people.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

ozziepost: Frankly, it seems like a whole lot of wasted effort for the small amounts involved.

I don't know what the laws are like in Croatia, but there are usually legal and tax benefits to incorporating, even if you are a very small operation. And if you plan to grow into an international conglomerate that has revenues in the billions from making exJW videos, you have to start somewhere. 😉

19

How far has Watchtower and the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses gone to stalk and silence critics?

by Balaamsass2 in

we have all watched some of the documentaries about the church of scientology hiring detectives to stalk and harass their former members,( their "apostates").

i have heard of individual cases of rabid jw elders stalking ex-jws, and of course, one would expect some enforcement of corporate copyright infringement on anti-jw websites.. what were the most outrageous jw "stalking" or investigation stories you remember?.

tonight's 60 minutes into ebay stalking a middle-aged couple who writes a newsletter reminded me a lot of the menlo park congregation watchtower "takeover", closure, and stalking of local elders to mind.

TonusOH

There are many sites run by people who will give in when challenged by a larger and better funded opponent. The WTS knows that many of its legal challenges will not stand up in court, but they are counting on people not wanting to spend money (or not having enough money) to fight even frivolous actions. And the WTS knows that, if it can draw out any legal action, the financial pressure grows even for those who want to fight.

AvoidJW has info on the McFree case, and what the WTS did and tried to do to him:

https://avoidjw.org/news/usa-lengthy-legal-struggle-ends-in-victory/