Posts by TonusOH

98

Better off PIMA than POMA or POMO.

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

the situation is many of us are pima and all putting on a front, sometimes saying something we don’t fully believe.

or at least are actually agnostic about but a hope that it’s true.. but it can be useful if someone is really going through a hard time or has something they are very worried about, to say things like well let’s hope there is not much longer of this old system.. this can be useful in an awkward situation where you just don’t know what to do or say.

it’s a little bit of hope that can help when there is nothing else.. my agnosticism just means i won’t look back over decades thinking i wasted my life.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: @TonusOH - No, I'm not saying that.

Okay, I understand what you mean. In a community or society, individuals can agree on a set of moral values and codes of conduct, which create incentives to avoid certain behavior. Wouldn't a group of people, absent a god, be able to come to a consensus that murder is wrong? The reasoning seems pretty clear.

But one of those people could decide he does not agree with this set of values and reject the code of conduct. We are aware that this has always happened. According to the Bible, the first murder was committed by Cain. Was he unaware that killing Abel was wrong? His punishment was that he was allowed to flee with a wife and found a city. How would this have impressed upon him the immoral nature of his action?

If God can determine moral values and codes of conduct, but cannot prevent people from going their own way, that doesn't seem different from a human society that does the same. What am I missing?

98

Better off PIMA than POMA or POMO.

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

the situation is many of us are pima and all putting on a front, sometimes saying something we don’t fully believe.

or at least are actually agnostic about but a hope that it’s true.. but it can be useful if someone is really going through a hard time or has something they are very worried about, to say things like well let’s hope there is not much longer of this old system.. this can be useful in an awkward situation where you just don’t know what to do or say.

it’s a little bit of hope that can help when there is nothing else.. my agnosticism just means i won’t look back over decades thinking i wasted my life.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: What if someone chooses a purpose that requires them to murder you?

You seem to be saying that, without God, we cannot agree on standards of behavior. Yet human societies have managed this for thousands of years, and do so to this day. Do you believe that, without God, we would not be able to determine why murder is bad?

As for God's character, we are referring to a being who defines itself as jealous, angry, vengeful, and a god of armies. Who wiped out almost all life on the planet with a flood. Who led his chosen people through a violent scouring of cities and cultures that occasionally involved the killing of every last man, woman, and child, and sometimes even livestock. Who struck dead a man who reached out to steady the ark of the covenant, when he feared it might fall.

An individual who decides that his purpose requires my murder is scary, but I can have hope that I may avoid or overcome him. An all-powerful God who can wipe out whole populations with a thought, and has demonstrated that capability before? That is terrifying.

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses view faithfulness to Jehovah as being equivalent to faithfulness to the Governing Body?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i thought this was an interesting response to the question.

"being faithful and loyal to god implies or includes.

being faithful to your spouse (hebrews 13:4),.

TonusOH

Vidiot: They view loyalty and obedience to the GB-slash-WTS as being equivalent to faithfulness to Jehovah.

That is what I was going to say. JWs put Jehovah above all else. But they view the organization as the spokesman for God. In order to be loyal/faithful to Jehovah, you have to be loyal/faithful to the GB, since God put them there as an interface between Himself and humanity.

They are not God, they are his gatekeepers. You cannot get to God except through them. That... that sounds familiar...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

LUHE: I still don't understand Lloyd's litigation thing.

That's fine, neither does Lloyd.

It's a tactic- his way of having something to respond with when people start asking questions. He will try to dismiss his critics by claiming that they're defendants in a criminal suit. He will try to dismiss anyone else by claiming that they're on the side of defendants in a criminal suit. By implying that they're criminals, he can make himself out to be a victim who is only fighting back against those mean criminals.

And since the "defamation campaign" forms the basis of his recent requests for more financial support, he is going to ride that concept for as long as he can. I think his hope is that the criticism dies down before his support drops to an unsustainable level, so that he can finally rebuild. He has no other viable options, so he is in for the long haul by default.

19

Christmas Decorations at the Kingdom hall

by Simon in

i can't remember if i've told this story before .... but back in the day, in irlam congregation (northwest england, uk, cheshire #1 circuit i think) we used to rent a kingdom hall for many years before we eventually built our own.. preston hall.

ah, the memories .... it was primarily used as a community hall for old folks, but we had it friday night and sunday morning.. there was a loft and fold-out ladder and we used to store the chairs up their.

every meeting, there would be an assembly line of all the "lads" to pass the chairs down and set them up, then collect them up and pass them back up at the end of the meeting.

TonusOH

As I understand it, the Xmas at the WTS HQ picture was kept quiet until Ray Franz mentioned it (and showed it) in CoC. Then the society made mention of the early days, when they celebrated Xmas, and also showed the picture. I wonder if it would have ever been mentioned, had Franz not done so. My guess is no.

34

Betty Georges - The Female Helper to the Governing Body

by MillennialDawn in

jw
friends

betty georges is listed as a helper to the governing body service committee, according to this page on the website: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body-jw-helpers/.

anybody know anything about her?.

TonusOH

Also, the villain in Kung Pow: Enter the Fist changed his name to Betty. And he was a badass macho tough guy!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

LMsA: Lloyd has an interesting bedside manner in wooing back the wife who just dropped the news she wanted to divorce him.

He doesn't ever display empathy. In his letter to her, he is cold and technical. He even describes how he 'debunked' one of her letters. He doesn't see it as an attempt at reaching an understanding with her, he appears to see it as a business negotiation or a game of some kind. If he can 'debunk' enough of her claims and arguments, he stands to get a better deal. She's just another random person on the other side of the table, and his goal is to defeat her.

31

Predict JW life in future

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a sister said the other day at the ministry group “”what is all this talk that the end is still some way off” she said she has been waiting for decades and she was told there is no way it would take this long.

some others said in an annoyed kind of way yes they would have made different decisions decades ago if they knew the end still would not have come by 2023.. how will the majority react in a few more decades time when the end still hasn’t come?.

why all that talk of sense of urgency decades ago?.

TonusOH

EBNP: If you believe in evolution there is no possible hope at all everything is pointless and without purpose.

Many people who believe in god also believe that evolution accurately accounts for the diversity of life. I assume you are referring to abiogenesis, the concept that life began without the intervention of a divine being.

My life has purpose and a point to me. To a lesser extent, it has meaning to those who know me and care about me. If my life stops having purpose and meaning to anyone in a million years, that's not something that keeps me awake at night. Being dead makes the whole thing academic. But until that time, I live a life with purpose and meaning. Whether there is a god or not.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Him saying he has better things to do is his way of demanding that you stop responding. We always want to have the last word in any contentious discussion, but he is pathological about it. Like his penis, he is unable to control his compulsion to always have the last word.

19

Christmas Decorations at the Kingdom hall

by Simon in

i can't remember if i've told this story before .... but back in the day, in irlam congregation (northwest england, uk, cheshire #1 circuit i think) we used to rent a kingdom hall for many years before we eventually built our own.. preston hall.

ah, the memories .... it was primarily used as a community hall for old folks, but we had it friday night and sunday morning.. there was a loft and fold-out ladder and we used to store the chairs up their.

every meeting, there would be an assembly line of all the "lads" to pass the chairs down and set them up, then collect them up and pass them back up at the end of the meeting.

TonusOH

Chevelle: In the 70s and 80s, we had our circuit assemblies in a Jewish Synagogue in New York City.

In Manhattan, right? I went to that one a bunch of times for two-day weekend conventions.

As for a fancy-looking KH, I missed out. The ones I went to were quite basic in design and decoration. Fully functional and had all of the necessary accommodations and features, but the layout was very simple and the colors were mostly earth-tones and wood paneling. It was drab and lifeless. No wonder meetings seemed so interminable.