Posts by TonusOH

2

I've been out since 1998 and they are trying to pull me back now.

by noni1974 in

ok so i have had a little bit of family conflict this past week due to my disfellowshiped farther will where he not just inherited someone we didn't know as a full 1/4th inheritor of his estate he also made him the executor of his estate.

i don't actually care about that but i decided to let my fully in jw sister who i still have semi regular contact with of his decision.

apparently, he is the son of my father's former girlfriend who died in february of 2022 where he was still married to my mother until she passed away in july of 2022. .

TonusOH

I have found that it is common for JWs, especially older ones, to do a poor job of planning for later life. Stuff like wills, estate planning, contact info, and so on. The medical directive cards were almost never discussed when I was in; we would only remember them when the time came to renew them. Many JWs that I knew would be caught unprepared even for this minor step, so I would imagine that many of them were not filled out with forethought.

As for the rest... one thing I am grateful for was that my fade was long and slow. By the time I was out, I had my life set up the way I wanted and I had options. If anyone decided they had a problem with me, that was fine. I was in a good place personally, and if toxic people refused to invade that space, they did not need to know that they were doing me a favor. I'm sorry to hear of your experience with your dad and your family. It is a sadly common experience for people who wake up and realize that the WTS is not 'the truth.'

11

Governing Body Culpability

by NotFormer in

i've seen people say something along the lines that the authorities would like to/have been trying to subpoena (members of) the gb (in csa cases).

my question is: why don't they?

if the gb are issuing orders to cover up evidence in csa cases, and otherwise interfere in justice being served in those cases, then they are accessories before (and after) the fact, and theoretically can be arrested and charged as such.

TonusOH

The Australian Royal Commission really hammered them on that point. Even if their discussions with the accused were to be kept confidential, it would have mattered little if they had encouraged families to contact the authorities. But, of the over 1,000 cases in the branch office records (in Australia), not a single one was reported to police. 1,006 predators who abused at least 1,800 children over a 50-year period, and not one of them was turned in.

The elders in question did not even have to do anything more than advise the families to go to the cops. Or perhaps just get out of the way and let them report the crime. But they did the opposite in the cases that were investigated by the commission. They discouraged it, not wanting to 'drag Jehovah's name through the mud.' Now, that name has a lot more mud on it. The whole issue of clergy-penitent privilege is a red herring. They could have protected children. They chose not to.

6

Elder Ernest Fyans will serve 20 years in prison for SA

by Tahoe in

https://youtu.be/zq6cnuulvsg?si=ie1rhvguvzjney30

TonusOH

Maximum sentence? Good! But also, too short.

And it took an exJW to turn over the evidence that the congregations had? Maybe there are a few other people who should have joined him in prison.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

The funny part is that he worded it to imply that the crimes were committed in Croatia. Or, at least, that it's the sort of crime that Croatia would assume jursidiction over. Unless the M7 were part of a global money-laundering scheme or shipping drugs over there, I'd say extradition is a long shot. My guess is that there isn't a law on the books that deals with holding a metaphorical mirror up to an idiot's face, since that isn't much of a crime. More like a public service.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

LOL

4

Great "Guardian"Article from XJW Author Jodie Chapman !

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/feb/17/fiction-opened-my-eyes-author-jodie-chapman-on-growing-up-as-a-jehovahs-witness?fbclid=iwar3slqo_dfedknxgy9c9hf50ppxz_lhzca12xmv0q3jpnxdgldptlirv8o0.

TonusOH

I read 1984 when I was in high school, so right around 1984. Now that I think about it, that might have been why they asked us to read it. The USA was in the midst of the Reagan years (he would win a massive landslide victory in 1984) and the book fit comfortably into the anti-USSR feelings that America was fully immersed in as the cold war lurched towards its unexpectedly sudden conclusion.

But I didn't link it to the WTS or JWs, since I was 100% in as a young man. Even when I read it again, years later, I did not notice the parallels. It was so firmly entrenched in my mind as an anti-socialist/anti-communist book that I couldn't see it in any other context. The grip that a cult can have on a person is mind-blowing, in hindsight.

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

Thanks for uploading it, nic!

YouTube did most of the work. I think I mentioned in this topic that YT has a transcription option now. And it does a remarkably good job. I guess it helps that Evans (even when he is making a half-drunk livestream) talks at an even pace and enunciates clearly. It only took three or four hours (spread out over the course of a month or so) to fix a few words and remove the extraneous "um" and "uh" that are scattered about. Even better, I only had to watch the stream two times to complete it!

3069

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

His biggest problem is that he doesn't realize he's bad at comedy.

Which is the same sort of problem that has led to where he is now. He doesn't realize that he's a bad husband. And a bad father. Now we can add comedian, musician, and food critic to that list.

6

Attorney Irwin Zalkin explains the article, Pa. courts weigh whether JW's elders must report confessed child abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

the pennsylvania supreme court memorandum opinion that i posted on this discussion board yesterday was confusing enough for me to ask attorney irwin zalkin to explain the issues.

he promptly replied and gave me permission to post here the following important information that he provided.. "the pennsylvania supreme court memorandum opinion raises the question of whether jehovah’s witnesses (“jw’s”) elders, who are volunteer clergy, fall under an exception to the mandatory reporting law of the state of pennsylvania.

jw’s members of the ivy hill congregation of jw’s sued the pa department of human services (dhs) and asked the court to issue a judgment that as a matter of law makes jw’s elders exempt from pa’s mandatory reporting of known or suspected child abuse, including child sexual abuse.

TonusOH

Thank you for the effort put in to get this additional clarification.

It had never occurred to me that the WTS plays so loose with the clergy/penitent privilege. But what they state fits with my experience- records are kept for publishers, including who was DFed and why. The moment these are shared, that breaks the confidentiality they profess to hold sacred. And they may be shared at least a few times. With the branch office, with the HQ, with new/incoming elders, with elders at congregations the person moves to, and so on. And also... from conversations between elders and other people, including maybe those who aren't elders...

I think the law in the UK and Australia says that for CSA cases, this confidentiality must be waived and the authorities notified. The Australian RC investigating the WTS found that, contrary to the WTS's and elder's claims that they took CSA seriously and worked to protect children, they treated CSA cases like any other issue. And in some cases, they treated those other issues as more important than protecting victims. In the cases the RC heard, the clergy/penitent privilege does not explain some of the actions taken (or not taken).

47

The First Holocaust

by nicolaou in

please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

TonusOH

KalebOutWest: First, the Noachin Deluge is the newer myth.

I was referring to the stories that follow in Genesis, such as the tower of Babel, which I also referred to in my earlier post.

KalebOutWest: As a Jew I can attest that we do not teach anywhere in our Scriptures that "God is love,"

I appreciate the different viewpoint, but my own viewpoint -the one I speak from- is as a former JW, a fundementalist Christian. This is the viewpoint I grew up with, and is the one I know. Naturally, it is the one I apply to my reading of the Bible and to my understanding of its contents.

KalebOutWest: As for reading these stories, we Jews know how to read them.

Cool. I wasn't raised Jewish. I know the Bible from the JW perspective, and from the Christian perspective. I have found it both entertaining and interesting to approach it just as it is written. And yes, I understand that it is a translation from other languages. That is actually a point I made in my earlier post, regarding the tower of Babel. But the English translations are what I have and what I know, so it makes sense that these are the ones I use.

Christians believe that the Bible is the inspired word of god, and that god possesses certain qualities, and that the stories in the Bible reflect those qualities. I find that not to be the case. My references to this god's actions in Genesis are some of many examples of this that I find in the Bible. "You hate god" or "You're angry at god" is a common deflection thrown at people who point these things out. But, even if this is the case, it doesn't invalidate my comments. Star Wars is a good analogy. We could spend a fair amount of time pointing out the flaws and plot holes in the various movies and books, and these would exist whether we hate Darth Vader or not.