Posts by TonusOH

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Logic is neither happenstance nor design. It's a human construct. The apologist creates a false dichotomy in order to --again-- promote the idea that a god is necessary. But it's just another presupposition. There is no way to demonstrate that logic must be happenstance or "designed." It's nonsense. A way to attempt to push the burden of proof to the non-believer when you do not have any answers for your own proposition.

But hey-- let's accept that a god is necessary and that the universe is designed. The likeliest god is not any of the ones we have heard of. None of those are demonstrable. This bait-and-switch tactic, where the apologist tries to sneak in his god for the necessary god, is dishonest and demonstrates that you cannot get any farther than sloppy arguments for 'design.' Because you've got to account for all of these "designs," not just the ones that are convenient for the argument you're trying to make.

153

When JW.org drops 607BCE...

by Nathan Natas in

probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

" by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

TonusOH

If they had the truth, and if this truth was indeed a beacon of light that dispersed darkness, they would not have to disfellowship anyone. Or even preach very often, since such truths would draw people to them.

If god wanted everyone to be saved, they'd be saved. If you have to work this hard to get people to learn the truth, maybe you don't have any truth to teach.

3059

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I wonder if he ever refunds part of the monthly subscriber payment whenever he cancels one of the perks?

No, probably not. A doctor doesn't get docked if he has to take a sick day, after all.

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

TonusOH

I'd much rather know how to grow and store food than have a bag of stale bread and MREs. If things are so bad that you couldn't keep a garden, I don't see how a bag of old rations and a flashlight are going to make any difference.

3059

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I have no idea if he has a drinking problem, but he did appear to be at least tipsy during the livestream. Since alcohol can decrease our inhibitions, it's possible that drinking too much is one of the reasons he didn't realize what a mess he was making at the time. To which I say: good job, dumbass! Have another mushroom!

47

Solar Eclipse - How Common is It?

by Sea Breeze in

of the 213 moons in our solar system, only ours provides a total solar eclipse.. coincidence?.

TonusOH

Those are all examples of the argument that a god is necessary, which relies on gaps in our knowledge or understanding of the universe. It's a weak first step (it's not proof, after all), but it's one that most people find at least somewhat compelling. The less a person knows about physics or astronomy, the more likely they are to find it compelling. Coincidence?

As one of those laypersons who knows little about physics or astronomy, I take some interest in the argument. It doesn't lead to any of the gods that humans have invented (which, so far, appears to be all of them), but it does imply that perhaps there is a being --or a whole other universe of beings-- who create and experiment with universes as some kind of research. Or perhaps for entertainment, depending on how like us they are. This doesn't bode well for any hope of an eternal future, so I doubt the idea will catch on.

As for total solar eclipses being unique to Earth and its moon, I'd say it sure does seem like a coincidence. It's a better argument than "I saw Jesus on a piece of burnt toast," but I just don't see the relevance.

18

Did Geoffrey Jackson Actually Reject His Faith During the ARC Hearing?

by xjwsrock in

as portrayed in the convention videos this year about sergei (the fictional jw character in cold-war-era ussr), the jw leaders expect loyalty, even enduring imprisonment and/or death.

in one scene sergei was offered an early release from prison if he would sign a statement renouncing his religion.

well he refused and spent 5 years in prison as a result.

TonusOH

This site has some commentary, but also links to the transcripts and video:

https://preachfromthehousetops.com/2022/02/06/the-testimony-of-geoffrey-jackson-at-the-australian-royal-commission/

Jackson's testimony makes you think of someone with a lot to hide. He frequently would not answer questions directly, which resulted in several instances where the prosecutor repeated the questions and explained that his answers needed clarification or did not apply to the question at all. It shouldn't be difficult to find at least one or two instances where Jackson either lied or was deceptive.

And it should be noted that he only testified because he was in Australia to visit his ailing father and was served a subpoena. No GB member wanted anything to do with the ARC, much in the same way they are trying to get out of being included in the investigation in New Zealand.

As for "theocratic warfare," was that what Jesus did? Lie to people and misrepresent himself in order to avoid having to answer difficult questions, or get out of trouble? If not, whose example are they following when they advise people to Lie For Jehovah? I bet those JWs in Malawi would have liked some clarification on the issue.

20

So Let's Say Bigger Change Happens

by peacefulpete in

if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?

i suspect the latter.

when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.

TonusOH

WTS played him up as a humble man of god and a visionary. They downplayed any of his negatives and memory-holed as much of the bad stuff as they could. They needed for him to be a modern-day prophet. He became the calm and reasonable founder, with Rutherford cast as the firebrand who took the baton from Russell's dying hand and brought the movement forward into the 20th century.

The real story is far more entertaining, but not as useful for building a religion around.

41

New lawsuit against the Watchtower in Ontario, Canada

by yalbmert99 in

the new class action lawsuit against the watchtower for having covered up child sexual abuse will begin in court on may 13-14-15, 2024 in the province of ontario, canada.

it is not the same as in the province of quebec because the laws aren't the same.

i don’t have more details.

TonusOH

I don't know where they stand financially, and it can be very difficult to guess at. Settlements can often be much smaller than we expect, especially with cases where there may not be much evidence. And since those always include an NDA, we are left without important information. Ramapo is expected to be finished in 2026, if I remember correctly. I don't know how much we can learn from that, although I suppose they would need to file some kind of paperwork if they modify their plans for it.

I don't think they have unlimited funds, and I would not be surprised if they have been reducing expenses to deal with decreased income. But they may be able to fake it for many years to come. The importance of the lawsuits is to make it harder and harder for them to wave off accusations that they do not protect children. They condemned 'Christendom' for their many CSA scandals, but now they are in the crosshairs and there are so many investigations turning up so many cases that their own moment of reckoning may be near. And even unlimited money will not wash off that stain.

20

So Let's Say Bigger Change Happens

by peacefulpete in

if a change in the blood policy happens, who will be more upset, jws or former jws?

i suspect the latter.

when the beard thing went down, jw's seem to immediately embrace it, whereas many former jw's have been brooding about it.. did it take away a pet gripe we had?.

TonusOH

I think the changes are good, whether they lead to people staying in or not. The more mainstream they get, the less strict and controlling. I no longer have a stake in it-- I left many years ago and did so quietly and without drama. And my mother will stay in right to the very end-- that is as sunk a cost as has ever been sunk. So the changes do not impact me.

I came to this forum because I was curious about the Lloyd Evans situation. If not for that, I wouldn't be aware of anything the JWs are doing (my mother will occasionally remind me that The End Is Near, but she never discusses policy). I'm glad to learn that they're being called to account and forced to answer for bad policy and bad decisions, though. As much as I left it behind, it was still a massive part of my life and shaped who I am as a person, for better and for worse.