Posts by TonusOH

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: But, my point is how can a person receive love from someone else without it being offered out of their own free-will? It would be meaningless, common, of no special value..... and received as such.

You seem to be saying that the concept of free will is just a description of our ability to make any decision. Is that what free will is? If so, it opens up a whole different can of worms. For starters, how can we ever be free of sin if that is what free will is? And, now that I think of it, why compel us with a sinful nature if we are supposed to have free will? The concept gets more and more convoluted the deeper we dive into it.

If free will only refers to being given the choice to freely accept or reject God, that would not affect my ability to offer love willingly to another person.

But this just reinforces my point: if my only options are to have free will with all of its attendant consequences, or be an unwilling automaton in a universe where no one ever suffered, how is the former the better option? And how is an all-powerful and all-knowing being incapable of coming up with an option where everyone is free to make choices without the endless suffering that the Biblical god has visited on us?

2912

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

It's no surprise that he hates Trump. It must be like looking in a mirror.

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

TonusOH

Jan: So does anyone want to predict how long Trump will last before Vance finds a way to take over ?

There are probably a number of people here (in the US) expressing the same concern. Every four years, half of the country expresses hope and the other half expresses despair. Four years later, we will somehow have managed to avert the END OF DEMOCRACY AS WE KNOW IT.

If Republicans secure a majority in both houses of Congress, the left will really lose its collective head, even though our history tends to show that a President whose party has control of Congress often gets less done than he would if Congress were in their opponent's hands. And many Republicans despise Trump as much as Democrats do.

Which is to say that we'll be fine. It will be a clown show, for sure; that can't be helped with Trump at the helm. But he'll do better than his detractors think, and worse than his supporters hope. That's just how it goes. Personally, I'm glad that the election results look like they will be clear enough that we can spare ourselves six months of court challenges and recounts. We can jump right into protests and contentious media confrontations from day 1.

39

Why do most Ex jW W‘s seem to be liberal?

by JaredScott-1977 in

i’m just curious about this dynamic i don’t care personally one way or the other but i do have friends who have chosen to be conservatives and they get totally destroyed on social media pages for their choice.

it’s almost like a lot of ex jw w become as toxic and his judgmental as jehovah’s witnesses themselves what’s up with that?

i also know conservative ex jw’s that can do the same so again i’m not leaning one way or the other i’m just noticing factual observations.

TonusOH

There are reasons for exJWs to lean in either direction.

The religion is a deeply literalist fundamentalist one. So it is no surprise if exJWs are very right-leaning. At the same time, some exJWs may reject the religion so completely that it also helps shape their political views, which might have them lean left.

Another issue is that the WTS discourages advanced education and career paths. Many JWs are dependent on government aid and subsidies, which are often championed by the left. A JW may take offense at many liberal views on sex and science, but they find that liberals are more inclined to offer the social services that many JWs depend on.

If you are a JW long enough, I think you're more likely to take a hardcore political stance. It is a very all or nothing approach to how we view the world. That particular concept is what I rejected in order to eventually fade.

66

Trump wins

by gavindlt in

i am non political and have never voted but nonetheless i have been keenly watching to see how the trump presidential race unfolds.

i believe that his involvement in propelling or influencing a leaning toward bible prophecy will unfold.

how, i can’t say but something tells me that this anomaly and outlier being trump is highly signifiant!

TonusOH

I'm just glad that it was clear enough so that we do not spend the next six months in court battles.

Not that we will have a peaceful (or even sane) four years. The show has only begun.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

I don't think we would be compelled to love if we could not sin. I think it would be very difficult to justify hate if we could not sin. Having fewer excuses to hate seems like another benefit.

Christians also believe that we cannot avoid sinning. Doesn't that mean that we are programmed to do so? Given the choice of not being able to sin versus not being able to stop myself from sinning, I can't see a reason to want the latter. Especially when we consider the potential consequences. I can't see myself doing something like that to another person; it would seem manipulative and extremely cruel.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Vanderhoven7: The new creation (Christ in you) does not sin.

All I am asking is why this would not have been so from the beginning. What good comes from allowing people to sin? Especially if the eventual outcome is that our nature is changed to be incapable of sin? Why not start at the end and skip the part where people suffer? Especially when many of them will keep suffering forever and ever?

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: When a person accepts God's offer to make him / her a family member, God gives then a new spirit which cannot sin.

So, eventually, he takes away our free will. Why make this conditional on an offer? The offer is unnecessary if he makes us incapable of sinning in the first place. Why not do that from the beginning?

What benefit is there to being able to sin?

2912

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I think he has focused too much on himself and not enough on the content. He was more worried with building a presence and gaining attention and becoming a celebrity within the small world of exJW content, and hoping to branch out to researching religion and promoting atheism. All of that can be done, but the content always has to be the first priority, and it's clear that this wasn't the case. He relied way too much on others to do the most important work.

And that might not have been so bad if he didn't treat everyone else like garbage. Not paying them (or underpaying) for their efforts, being an obnoxious bully the moment someone didn't grovel enough, picking fights out of a desire to be an alpha male, and so on. And, of course, cheating on his wife with sex workers and melting down on a livestream when this was revealed to everyone. If you're going to succeed with the setup he had going, you have to be fair or nice to at least a few people. He could not even manage that.

Which is why he has almost no hope of salvaging the channel or his 'career as an activist.' Who is going to work with someone who will treat you badly, cheat you out of money, and assign credit/blame in a completely self-serving manner? He has to do all the work himself now. No one else to do it. No one else to lay the blame on when things go wrong. No one to bully when the pressure gets to him. No one to cheat out of compensation. It's only a matter of time, now.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: So, How can you claim that the only outcome of free will is catastrophe ?

If we were incapable of committing sin, everyone would be loyal to God and no one would suffer. The world would be a utopia, the afterlife would be spent in heaven with God for eternity.

If people are capable of committing sin, everyone suffers during their lives. They disappoint God and let him down frequently. It got so bad that at one point God wiped out almost all human life on the planet, and doing that did not stop the sin and the suffering. In addition, many people will suffer eternally as a result of exercising free will to commit sin.

How is the second outcome not a catastrophe?