Posts by Smitty

tfs,
You said, "3) Also, it appears both Temples had a PREVIOUS existence where gross sin was practiced, an abomination and "fornication", and forceably had a "curse" from God imposed upon it. This is not so easy to see at first. But here is where Rev. 11:1-4 becomes very important in describing this previous situation. The "Temple" that did not "measure" up to God's original standards. We see this also in Ezekiel's vision of a temple that did not originally meet God's standards. (Eze. 43:6-10; Rev. 11:1,2; 22:3) "

How do you see that both had PREVIOUS existence of gross sin? The temple that is spoken of in Eze 43 is partially talking about the Jewish temple and their rulers, not God's Holy temple.

Eze 43
"Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory.
The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when he came to destroy the city and like the visions I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown. The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east. Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: "Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The house of Israel will never again defile my holy name--neither they nor their kings--by their prostitution and the lifeless idols of their kings at their high places. When they placed their threshold next to my threshold and their doorposts beside my doorposts, with only a wall between me and them, they defiled my holy name by their detestable practices. So I destroyed them in my anger. Now let them put away from me their prostitution and the lifeless idols of their kings, and I will live among them forever. "Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider the plan, and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple--its arrangement, its exits and entrances--its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations. "This is the law of the temple: All the surrounding area on top of the mountain will be most holy. Such is the law of the temple. "These are the measurements of the altar in long cubits, that cubit being a cubit and a handbreadth : Its gutter is a cubit deep and a cubit wide, with a rim of one span around the edge. And this is the height of the altar: From the gutter on the ground up to the lower ledge it is two cubits high and a cubit wide, and from the smaller ledge up to the larger ledge it is four cubits high and a cubit wide. The altar hearth is four cubits high, and four horns project upward from the hearth. The altar hearth is square, twelve cubits long and twelve cubits wide. The upper ledge also is square, fourteen cubits long and fourteen cubits wide, with a rim of half a cubit and a gutter of a cubit all around. The steps of the altar face east." Then he said to me, "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: These will be the regulations for sacrificing burnt offerings and sprinkling blood upon the altar when it is built: You are to give a young bull as a sin offering to the priests, who are Levites, of the family of Zadok, who come near to minister before me, declares the Sovereign LORD. You are to take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar and on the four corners of the upper ledge and all around the rim, and so purify the altar and make atonement for it. You are to take the bull for the sin offering and burn it in the designated part of the temple area outside the sanctuary. "On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect for a sin offering, and the altar is to be purified as it was purified with the bull. When you have finished purifying it, you are to offer a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect. You are to offer them before the LORD, and the priests are to sprinkle salt on them and sacrifice them as a burnt offering to the LORD. "For seven days you are to provide a male goat daily for a sin offering; you are also to provide a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect. For seven days they are to make atonement for the altar and cleanse it; thus they will dedicate it. At the end of these days, from the eighth day on, the priests are to present your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings on the altar. Then I will accept you, declares the Sovereign LORD."

This is where the confusion is. The bold does not prove that this is all one temple simultaneously. The tenses are being intermingled

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

I apologize tfs. I didn't mean to belitte your view. There was just to much to itemize if I were to point out everything. That would take some time. I'm sorry. ):

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

tfs,
to many incorrect assumptions in your comparisons.

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

Remember, this temple has to reflect the same pattern of the original tabernacle. The WT does not meet this criteria. No, they don't. By no means possible. They can't. No way. No most holy, no holy, no priest, no, no, no, etc. The temple mentioned in Revelation 11 is both in heaven and on earth. The Holy and Most Holy are Heaven. The courtyard is on earth. The two witnesses only prophecy in the courtyard, on earth. Remember when Jesus was killed, the curtain in the temple was torn into?
Matt 27:50-52 "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life." This symbolized the earthly temple was no longer a valid entrance to the Most holy. Jesus flesh was. Jehovah became the Most Holy. Jesus the High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek. There would be no end to his priestly role. This was the final destination of the Temple. This was the ultimate goal from the beginning. As Revelation 21:22, "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp."
No need for another earthly temple. That's why Jehovah says at Eze 43:7, " He said: "Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The house of Israel will never again defile my holy name--neither they nor their kings--by their prostitution and the lifeless idols of their kings at their high places."

It would be out of their reach. Only Jesus could enter the Most Holy.

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

Good question BJC,
Measuring does not denote something is wrong. No, it doesn't. Look at Revelation 21. It speaks of New Jerusalem being measured,

"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits thick, by man's measurement, which the angel was using. The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass.
19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

But you still haven't answered my question. Is it earthly or heavenly?

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

Believe it or not, understanding these four scriptures is a key to understanding so much of other prophesies. If you can know what and where this temple is, we can more clearly see what God is doing.
I've watched this board for a long time. Many have been blessed with knowledge and understanding of the scriptures. But, it's reflected differently through each person. Why? Light outputs filter differently depending on the purity of its medium. In our case, our hearts. A good test of purity for a medium, in our case our heart, is the ease of viewing or clarity as it harmonizes with its original source. Simply put, can everybody see it clearly from the scriptures? Everybody! So, truth is basically going to be a race of clarity, simplicity.
Just because we have been blessed with knowledge does not make us special, just blessed. Remember, "ask and you will receive", "search and ye shall find". Jehovah is a generous God.

Proverbs 2:1-13 says, "My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. He holds victory in store for the upright, he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless, for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones. Then you will understand what is right and just and fair--every good path. For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you. Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse, who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways"

Also, Daniel says, "But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge." (Daniel 12:4) It says many will increase in knowledge.

So, which is it? Is this temple of earth or heaven?

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

It most definitely exist today! But, is it earthly or Heavenly?

24

Revelation 11:1-4

by Smitty in

a question for all the bible experts: .

who or what does revelation 11:1-4 apply to?

Smitty

In other words, this temple we're speaking of has to meet one main criterion. It must reflect the pattern of the original tabernacle. Would you not agree? It also must have a Most Holy, a Holy and a Curtain that separates them? Right? Then, we must see a High Priest, sub-priest and sin offerings being made in behalf of a people. Right? So, does it exist today? Or is this speaking of a future temple here on earth, the old Jewish temple or The Heavenly Temple? Any takers?