saw this on the exjw reddit forum - very thought provoking.. "when your own thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendships outside of the organisation are censored, we are being abused, for the ends never justify the means.. when our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger.. when we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult .... when family and friends are used as a weapon in order to force us to stay in an organisation, something has gone terribly wrong".. deborah layton.
seductive poison: a jonestown survivor's story of life and death in the people's temple.. .
Who Joins a Cult?
“Nobody joins a cult. Nobody intentionally joins a group or organization thinking they’ll be harmed or injured; nobody imagined they’d give their lives for the People’s Temple. We join all kinds of groups all the time – self-help, political – but some become malignant. The people that join [such groups] tend to be idealistic and kind; they’re people you’d want as a friend. They get drawn in and trapped.” - Deborah Layton
there is no holy spirit.
i lead a double life.
i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.
Hoser: Me staying in is just good business ATM. I keep contacts on both sides of the fence so to speak. Contacts mean contracts
Sounds like the proverbial deal with the devil!
there is no holy spirit.
i lead a double life.
i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.
Well, Hoser. It sounds like you're making good use of what you yourself call "a double-life."
I'm just suggesting that there is actually something better. That, at least, is how it turned out for me. I also used to rationalize and justify to myself why I would "stay in good standing." My reasons were really, really good ... to me, at the time.
Sorry if that sounds self-righteous. That's the last thing I would want to be. I'm just sharing my experience.
Keep us posted!
there is no holy spirit.
i lead a double life.
i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.
It's true Hoser, there is no Holy Spirit--at least not anything like what we were taught by the JW religion.
I would like to suggest that you are squandering this knowledge living a "double life" and pretending to believe things which you obviously do not.
How about trying an authentic life?
By the way, living authentically does not require giving up swearing or divulging any other of your secret pleasures! ... LOL
7 years ago i was this "ultra spiritual elder".
you name it, i was visible all over the region.
i was the coordinator, on the convention committee, rbc, had a talk at every convention and assembly, regular pioneer, etc.
JJ: I read whole the post of "Wake me up" ... I'm planning my exit strategy.
Good to know. I'm glad you appreciated my comments there. What is great about a forum like this is that you are allowed to consider a wide range of different viewpoints. Take them all in, noting in particular the elements which we all have in common. Observe what resonates with you.
You are in a stage of leaving which I call the "What the heck do I still believe?" stage. You've discovered things about your religion which you can no longer believe. Once you start tugging on the loose threads the whole tapestry begins to fall apart. It is a confusing and disorienting place to be. Where before you thought you "had all the answers," now you're not even sure if you know the right questions to be asking.
Also, as with any high-control religion, things are very black and white with little or no tolerance for ambiguity and shades of grey. But in the real world, things are rarely--if ever--so clear cut. It takes time to learn how to deal with uncertainty and to accept that things are not only NOT as we want them to be, but they will never be, at least not completely. But there are some things in life we can control. It is up to us to learn to recognize them and to then have the courage to act and act decisively knowing that not all of our decisions will be the right ones or even good one. But that's okay.
We need to reclaim the control that we handed over to the WTBTS and take responsibility for our own life and our own decisions.
As I have discovered, there is a big difference between religion and spirituality. One is easy as it spoon-feeds you answers (someone else's answers, of course). The other is hard because you have to find those answers for yourself.
I look forward to reading more about your fade ....
BTW, I'm glad to hear that you and your son are all good. He must be a remarkable young man to have forgiven you for your mistreatment of him. Learn from him.
7 years ago i was this "ultra spiritual elder".
you name it, i was visible all over the region.
i was the coordinator, on the convention committee, rbc, had a talk at every convention and assembly, regular pioneer, etc.
growing up was ok being a jw or so i thought, i guess u accept life as it comes when yr a kid , anyhow i played guitar and my elder dad (who is currently df) would forbid me to learn hotel california or even if it came on the radio he would run and quickly turn it off , .
he explained he had heard a tape recording at work that explained that this song along with stairway to heaven and others had back masking on it and when played backwards would say stuff like "satan has his own congregation " or other stuff like that , now this was not a jw sanctioned audio talk just some other christian production .. none of dad's other peers felt the same and growing up it illustrated to me dad's propensity to be influenced and convinced about something seemingly innocuous to others.. fast forward to a year or so ago and i showed him a section from the eagles documentary where don henley talks about the meaning of hotel california and how much trouble christian evangelists gave the song due to their own interpretation etc , so completely refuted the claims my father had told me were fact as a kid ,from the horses mouth so to speak .
his answer was ,"well of course he'd say that he wants to save face ,he wouldn't admit the truth !".
Cult members are, by definition, delusional and paranoid. Indoctrinated mental illnesses are no different than the more organic garden variety, except perhaps that once identified they can be more directly dealt with.
i was just thinking that most witnesses can not approach a controversial topic without turning it into an attack of the person who raises that topic.. as we all awaken to ttatt (the truth about the truth), they simply can't discuss the actual facts or issues we discover without turning it into an attack of us as "apostates" with all the negative connotations that word entails.... how truly narrow minded and sad!
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they would rather attack the person than the topic..
This a classic example of the ad hominem fallacy.
And of course in JW-land anyone that disagrees is labeled an "apostate" so the argument is automatically--and conveniently--over without any critical thinking required. This is Cult 101.
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https://bonniezieman.com/2017/05/09/cracking-the-cult-code-for-therapists-what-cult-victims-want-their-therapist-to-know/.
This is much needed as many therapists do not understand the very real damage and emotional abuse that we have suffered as a result of being in a cult.
Many don't even recognize that religions such as JWs are a cult!
Well done Bonnie!
the jw cult systematically teaches doctrines, which in turn become beliefs, that hinders a persons mental, emotional and spiritual growth.
here are some great pointers on how to overcome deeply ingrained false beliefs.. .
1 timothy 4:2. such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.. https://youtu.be/agywceulbx0.
I was interested in this until I read: "Bentinho Massaro's teachings ... contain the essence of all major spiritual paths ..."
We, as ex-cult members, definitely need to learn to recognize the false and dysfunctional beliefs we have acquired about ourselves and the world, particularly the ones that can cause us great emotional distress: depression, anxiety and even mental disorders. It is a fact that many of these beliefs came to us as a result of being in the Jehovah's Witness religion.
Core beliefs typically center around themes of:
In unlearning these beliefs, we need to find positive, healthy beliefs to replace them. But these need to be OUR beliefs, not anyone else's beliefs, and particularly not those of some self-appointed guru. Be your own guru.
Cult survivors are particularly vulnerable to leaving one codependent relationship and ending up in another. It's a lot of work and can be emotionally painful, but it's worth it. There are no short cuts. No quick fixes. No easy answers.
A healthy skepticism is your best friend!
