Posts by jp1692

16

Just had to share.

by Coded Logic in

anybody into art out there?

i was just so blown away by this piece i had to share.. .

at first i was just like "oh, that's a clever idea".

jp1692

Smiddy, The image at the top center is the top of the easel holding the canvas in place.

45

What did NOT get you out?

by problemaddict 2 in

i realize this is odd, but a "how you woke up" thread and the personal stories that are told which i know we all enjoy, made me think of this.

in helping my wife and a couple others get the ball rolling, i realized the thing that resonated with me, didn't even move the needle with them.

i wanted to rail on and on about blood, because that was my conduit to waking up, but for my wife it was about shunning.

jp1692

OMG, when I learned about the UN/NGO scandal in 2002 or 2003 it was all over for me.

Maybe what makes the house of cards collapse depends more on where we are in the process of waking up than on any one specific doctrinal issue. It's kind of like a cult game of Jenga.

45

What did NOT get you out?

by problemaddict 2 in

i realize this is odd, but a "how you woke up" thread and the personal stories that are told which i know we all enjoy, made me think of this.

in helping my wife and a couple others get the ball rolling, i realized the thing that resonated with me, didn't even move the needle with them.

i wanted to rail on and on about blood, because that was my conduit to waking up, but for my wife it was about shunning.

I gotta' say: it ALL bugged me. Some things were obviously bigger deals than others, but eventually the cumulative effect of countless incongruities large and small brought the whole wall down--brick by imaginary brick--until there was nothing left but a large pile of psychological rubble where once an illusory "fortress of belief" had been. Now all that remains is a huge, worthless mess that needs to be carted away. Useless garbage. Trash of no value.

In fact, for most of us the personal cost to clean up this mess is huge: broken families, lost relationships, shattered faith, and countless missed opportunities for what could have and should have been ... the cost in very human terms of emotional pain and suffering is incalculable.

Ironically, it was the WTBTS's fantasy of "perfection" that made me so hypercritical of their imperfections.

If they hadn't tried so hard to paint the picture of a fantasy world I wouldn't have looked so closely for the gaps and flaws in their theology. The harder they tried, the more desperate they seemed.

I love a good story, but the internal logic must be consistent and coherent or else it just doesn't work for me.

YMMV

12

How did you overcome feelings of lost time in the Org?

by Skepsis in

jw
friends

i'm a very positive person who always try to focus on the good side of things.. however, my fading is becoming increasingly painful and i'm starting being shunned by some i thought were friends.

i'm missing some meetings so the rumour is spreading to neighbouring congregations where i'm known that i'm not as spiritual as i used to be.

elders want to have a shepherding meeting with me.

jp1692

@Wake Me, you're not supposed to see any of that. ... LOL!

12

How did you overcome feelings of lost time in the Org?

by Skepsis in

jw
friends

i'm a very positive person who always try to focus on the good side of things.. however, my fading is becoming increasingly painful and i'm starting being shunned by some i thought were friends.

i'm missing some meetings so the rumour is spreading to neighbouring congregations where i'm known that i'm not as spiritual as i used to be.

elders want to have a shepherding meeting with me.

jp1692

@Wake Me Up: I was caught red-handed for thinking for myself.

This is THE most serious crime a cult-member can commit. Far worse than anything else.

@Skepsis: the rumour is spreading ... that I'm not as spiritual as I used to be

Good. That means you're no longer a mindless drone. See my response to WMU for clarification.

@ Skepsis: I'm moving to another country soon and the [elders] see it as a materialistic goal.

What the elders think is irrelevant. It's your life. The elders need to mind their own fucking business. Of course I wouldn't advocate telling them that in those exact words, but only because it could unnecessarily complicate things. Although ...

9

Deborah Layton - Jonestown Survivor

by Tallon in

saw this on the exjw reddit forum - very thought provoking.. "when your own thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendships outside of the organisation are censored, we are being abused, for the ends never justify the means.. when our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger.. when we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult .... when family and friends are used as a weapon in order to force us to stay in an organisation, something has gone terribly wrong".. deborah layton.

seductive poison: a jonestown survivor's story of life and death in the people's temple.. .

jp1692

Who Joins a Cult?

“Nobody joins a cult. Nobody intentionally joins a group or organization thinking they’ll be harmed or injured; nobody imagined they’d give their lives for the People’s Temple. We join all kinds of groups all the time – self-help, political – but some become malignant. The people that join [such groups] tend to be idealistic and kind; they’re people you’d want as a friend. They get drawn in and trapped.” - Deborah Layton

36

There is no Holy Spirit.

by hoser in

there is no holy spirit.

i lead a double life.

i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.

jp1692

Hoser: Me staying in is just good business ATM. I keep contacts on both sides of the fence so to speak. Contacts mean contracts

Sounds like the proverbial deal with the devil!

36

There is no Holy Spirit.

by hoser in

there is no holy spirit.

i lead a double life.

i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.

jp1692

Well, Hoser. It sounds like you're making good use of what you yourself call "a double-life."

I'm just suggesting that there is actually something better. That, at least, is how it turned out for me. I also used to rationalize and justify to myself why I would "stay in good standing." My reasons were really, really good ... to me, at the time.

Sorry if that sounds self-righteous. That's the last thing I would want to be. I'm just sharing my experience.

Keep us posted!

36

There is no Holy Spirit.

by hoser in

there is no holy spirit.

i lead a double life.

i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.

jp1692

It's true Hoser, there is no Holy Spirit--at least not anything like what we were taught by the JW religion.

I would like to suggest that you are squandering this knowledge living a "double life" and pretending to believe things which you obviously do not.

How about trying an authentic life?

By the way, living authentically does not require giving up swearing or divulging any other of your secret pleasures! ... LOL

34

Physically In, Mentally Out

by James Jack in

7 years ago i was this "ultra spiritual elder".

you name it, i was visible all over the region.

i was the coordinator, on the convention committee, rbc, had a talk at every convention and assembly, regular pioneer, etc.

jp1692

JJ: I read whole the post of "Wake me up" ... I'm planning my exit strategy.

Good to know. I'm glad you appreciated my comments there. What is great about a forum like this is that you are allowed to consider a wide range of different viewpoints. Take them all in, noting in particular the elements which we all have in common. Observe what resonates with you.

You are in a stage of leaving which I call the "What the heck do I still believe?" stage. You've discovered things about your religion which you can no longer believe. Once you start tugging on the loose threads the whole tapestry begins to fall apart. It is a confusing and disorienting place to be. Where before you thought you "had all the answers," now you're not even sure if you know the right questions to be asking.

Also, as with any high-control religion, things are very black and white with little or no tolerance for ambiguity and shades of grey. But in the real world, things are rarely--if ever--so clear cut. It takes time to learn how to deal with uncertainty and to accept that things are not only NOT as we want them to be, but they will never be, at least not completely. But there are some things in life we can control. It is up to us to learn to recognize them and to then have the courage to act and act decisively knowing that not all of our decisions will be the right ones or even good one. But that's okay.

We need to reclaim the control that we handed over to the WTBTS and take responsibility for our own life and our own decisions.

As I have discovered, there is a big difference between religion and spirituality. One is easy as it spoon-feeds you answers (someone else's answers, of course). The other is hard because you have to find those answers for yourself.

I look forward to reading more about your fade ....

BTW, I'm glad to hear that you and your son are all good. He must be a remarkable young man to have forgiven you for your mistreatment of him. Learn from him.