Posts by jp1692

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Unsure: The more I think about it and the more I try to reason on it, the more it all just doesn't make sense.

That's because it doesn't make sense. You can't make sense out of nonsense no matter how hard you try.

Unsure: If you are a good person, you should be saved.

Why?

And who determines "good"? How "good" do you have to be? How far can you "fall short" and still be "good enough" to saved? What if you lost out on eternal salvation because of that towel you swiped from the hotel? Or the extra penny you got as change and didn't give back to the storekeeper? Or that scrap of paper you inadvertently dropped getting out of your car? Oh the horror!

It's hopeless and you'll never get an answer that is definitive because there isn't one.

And let's not forget my earlier question: Saved from what?

When I asked you for clarification about that above, you answered: Adamic sin. But it is only the Abrahamic religions that even acknowledge the Genesis story as part of their culture, and not all of them accept it as literal. Do you not see that you are coming at this question from a distinctly Christian point of view? (And a particular "Christian" one at that). This severely limits your ability to see and consider other possible answers.

Unsure: if God is love, salvation shouldn't be conditional based on belief.

According to who? Your gut. That's what you also wrote in your last post.

Do you really want to base your most important belief--one that can affect everything about how you live your life now and in anticipation of an afterlife that may or may not come true--on your "gut feeling"? That doesn't seem like a very sound way to make important, life-changing decisions.

What if it's just gas or indigestion?

What if God isn't love? (Where does THAT idea come from anyway?)

And what if there isn't any God at all?

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Unsure: I don't understand the purpose of that last post.

To acknowledge your response. You often don't respond and when you do I try to acknowledge it.

Unsure: Is there something wrong with listening to both sides?

Of course not. In fact, there is often more than just two sides to complicated issues. Thinking there is only two sides or viewpoints creates a false dichotomy or dilemma which is a common logical fallacy. The WTBTS loves to present things as if there are only two choices, and of course of the two they present one is obviously false leaving you--the unsuspecting prey--to pick the one they always intended you to pick.

You walk away thinking you're so smart but you were played. It's Cult 101.

Life is rarely this or that, black or white (or red or blue), one or the other. There are usually many options, all with various advantages and disadvantages.

Learn to look for more alternatives than the ones presented. Think critically. Ask questions. Be skeptical of easy answers to hard problems.

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Good to know, Unsure, good to know.

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Unsure: Re-posting these thoughts/questions for believers in this thread.

Are those of us that are not "believers" to understand this to mean you don't want to hear what any of us have to say on the subject?

If so, then you're asking the wrong crowd.

It sounds like, since you don't like the answers you're getting, you're just going to ignore them.

28

An infographic I just created...

by HappyHappyHappy1914 in

hey everyone.

i don't post here often, but i lurk pretty much everyday.

i just created the following infographic based on the recent yearbook stats.

jp1692

Very nice!

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Unsure: I want to believe. I pray for whatever is out there to reveal themselves to me.

Could it be that your lack of a personal revelation is because there is no one out there to reveal themselves?

Hungarian psychiatrist, Tamás Szasz, once quipped, "If you talk to God, that's prayer. If he talks to you, that's schizophrenia."

Unsure: How am I supposed to ignore logical explanations and information and deny it and attribute it to the Divine?

Easy: Don't.

119

Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

by unsure in

do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

i was born in.

jp1692

Now we're getting somewhere! We can put your first question together with your updated answer to mine and come up with a more complete question:

"Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved from Adamic sin?"

This is obviously only a question that followers of the three Abrahamic religions--Judaism, Christianity and Islam--would be concerned with. Jews and Muslims would emphatically answer, "No, you do not need to believe in Jesus." In fact, their concepts of Adamic sin and its consequences are very different than Christians', but they would want you to join their synagogue or mosque.

Of course, Christians (and I'm speaking very generally here) would almost universally say that you need to "believe in Jesus" (whatever that means) to be saved. That's their hook. Churches all have some kind of exclusivity that requires you belong to them, otherwise: what's the point?

And of course, if you asked a Hindu or a Buddhist, you'd get a completely take on the subject as they don't believe the Genesis/Garden of Eden account at all.

All of that being said, I would like you to consider a different way of looking at the question, one based on actual evidence and not religious guesswork.

Consider this: our best scientific knowledge is that anatomically modern humans have been on this planet for 100,000 to 300,000 years. Our study of evolutionary also helps us to understand that there was in fact no first human.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWLhXi24Mo

Although studies of mitochondrial DNA indicate that we all descended from one mother, it does not follow that we all had the same father. Either way, there was not Adam. And since there was no "Adam" there cannot have been "Adamic sin."

This whole idea of original sin was invented to make us feel bad about ourselves and eternally indebted to a God. The key point is that there has always been some priestly class that acts as intercessor on our behalf. This is how they maintain authority and control.

But the key point is: it's all a fiction.

You do not need "saving." You are human. You are what you are and that's fine. Learn to accept that and be the best version of yourself you can, but don't worry about living up to some impossibly high, unreachable standard that always keeps you feeling bad about yourself.

Repeat: You do not need saving. YOU DO NOT NEED SAVING.

You're fine just the way you are.

40

Some Good News About Me (Although Anthony Morris Will Be Furious)

by pale.emperor in

just wanted to share with you some good news i'm really excited about.

i have been accepted for university to study psychology and counseling.

my goal is to become a counselor and, in time, to specialize on treating those who have left high control relationships/groups like we all did.. it'll take a few years before im qualified but studying in university has been a dream of mine since i was 12, which was systematically dashed to pieces by watchtower.. .

jp1692

Congrats. Don't forget your colored socks!

85

Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

by cofty in

if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

it would be good to show that this is not the case..

jp1692

Saename: The problem is that you have no idea what you're reading.

Well that's just fucking stupid!

You don't know me and you don't know anything about my background or expertise. If you did, you'd realize what a completely wrong-headed and misguided comment you just made.

I was agreeing with you, you twit, and posted that excerpt from the Smithsonian to support you. Seriously, get the clue!

Could it be your arrogance that blinded you?

I really hate it when self-righteous people on forums like this that can't tell the difference between those that agree with them and those these don't. You make an argument of everything.

Go reread my post and see that I said NOTHING to warrant your self-biased induced knee-jerk response based on what you ASSUMED I meant rather than what I actually wrote. I posted a factoid. What you "read into that" is a projection of your own biases and neuroses.

For an obviously EDUCATED person, your response to me was not smart, nuanced or kind. Hence this response in kind, of a different sort.

I sure as hell don't need you to school me in the science, but you obviously need some lessons in manners.

10

Land of the living dead

by hoser in

one of my children got disfellowshipped recently.

i was worried about that some of my jw friends and jw relatives would mention it to me and it would make for awkward conversation as i am glad that he is out.

i went to a jw family gathering.

jp1692

More important than what "JW friends and relatives" think, how is YOUR relationship with your child now?