Posts by jp1692

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

"Millions of heterosexuals ... are able to live happily without fulfilling their sexual urges. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God" (Awake!, December, 2010, p. 22).

Translation: Millions of people live celibate lives because of situations beyond their control. If you are LGBTQIA, then you can and should too!

I'm not even going to touch how illogical and fucked-up this WT quote is on it's face. And Slimboyfat is absolutely correct that the "situations are not equivalent."

But what I DO want to point out is this: It is one thing to deny an "urge" or "temptation." It is quite another thing to deny who you are.

This is a key difference that--as far as I know--the WT has never addressed and shows a willful blindness in their adamant refusal to acknowledge.

A person can choose to wear colored socks or not. They can choose to wear tight-pants or not. We cannot choose to change who we are are our core. This is often manifest in behaviors, traits and mannerisms that are intrinsic to our identity and cannot be hidden or covered up by a "WT Approved" set of clothes.

The implicit message in WT propaganda remains the same: Deny yourself. Become as we are.

(Of course, this is true of all cults and is in fact one line of proof that a particular group is a cult.) This is why the WTBTS loves trotting out Romans 12:2 in relation to this and related issues:

And stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Scriptures like this seem to add legitimacy to admonitions to deny your true, authentic self. And if you still believe in the authority of the Bible, you will feel its pressure--insistent and unrelentingly corrosive to your soul.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

Sir82: they say things like "Even if certain persons are pre-disposed toward homosexuality, they should exercise self-control ..."

Is that a direct quote or your own paraphrase? If it's a quote, can you please provide the source?

I suspect any change is more of an unofficial, unwritten thing which of course would only add to the confusion.

Thanks!

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: I don't think so. I think the official JW position now is that gay people are probably born that way but that they should deny themselves.

I no longer regularly read WT publications so I can't comment. But I would like to know if there has been a change in their "official position" on this.

I remember two years ago there was quite a bit of discussion about a CO's letter regarding "gender blurring" dress and behaviors. (Click here for that discussion). But that letter discussed outward dress and grooming and perceived "gender blurring characteristics" including body-language, mannerisms and traits. It did not specifically address the issue you mentioned: whether or not people are born homosexual. (That the WT wants LGBTQIA individuals to deny themselves is evident from that CO's letter).

Do you have any direct quotations to support the change in viewpoint on the part of the WTBTS? I would certainly appreciate having written confirmation of such a change.

Thanks!

jp

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: On the gay issue, I thought it was interesting the wife said something like, "gay people are born that way, they don't choose it".

Good for her and you!

Of course, if she goes around saying things like that at the KH she'll soon find herself in a meeting with a couple of elders in the backroom.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: Even the assumption "there is a God" can be broken down.

That's true, which is why I restricted my comments to the God of the Bible.

28

My Boyfriend is a recent Ex Jehovah Witness

by whatisthis12 in

i have been dating my boyfriend for almost a year now.

when i met him i had no idea that he was a jehovah witness.

we took a vacation and he lied to his parents about who he was with, and they ended up finding out not only that he way lying, but who i was.

jp1692

WIT12: I feel like i will always be the girl that made him lose his relationship with his family and friends

That's not on you; that's on his family and friends.

It might help your BF to seek some counseling to help him untangle the mess of beliefs and emotions that he must be experiencing as a result of leaving this religion. It might even be helpful for you to go with him, at least for some of the sessions.

The one problem is that most therapists and counselors are not really familiar with the issues ex-cult members face. (Yes, JWs are a cult).

Here is a link to a resource that you might find helpful:

Document for Therapists - Bonnie Ziemann, PhD

Although she is now retired, Ziemann is both a therapist and a former, born-in Jehovah’s Witness.

This is from her website:

"Bonnie has the skills, knowledge, education and experience with which she can offer others help to leave high-control environments and recover from mind-control, coercion, manipulation and/or abuse."

Best wishes to you both!

20

Lessons learned from the wife of lot drama

by purrpurr in

the video drama shown at the recent comvention was called "the wife of lot".

i noticed some stuble lessons being taught in this soap opera style video.... firstly, all the bad influence comes from women, its the wife and the mother in law whose pushing for more money and a better lifestyle.

while the men remain loyal to god, can't show the men going astray now can we?.

jp1692

SBF: Or actually maybe it was intentional, to say no job, no matter how worthy, is as important as being a good JW.

That's more likely, methinks.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: The argument ... relies on a few assumptions.

You left out at least one assumption and it's a big one: The God of the Bible exists. (Although I suppose you could say this is implicit in your first assumption).

It has become my belief that the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive: The God of the Bible does NOT exist. Therefore we need not worry about any "prophecies" coming true. Instead we should get on with our lives and work toward making this life and this world the best we can.

This is actually good news, and it's real. Good news.

Consider for a moment Richard Dawkins description of the “The God of the Old Testament [who] is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Although there is no objective evidence to support the counterfactual assertion that the God of the Bible is real and actually exists, there are in fact plenty of scriptural proof-texts to support Dawkins' assessment. If you've been a JW for any length of time you probably know most, if not all, of them. Good thing it's all fiction.

Ponder that and it's ramifications!

5

Faithful and discreet “slave” is very apt name!

by venus in

i found it difficult to digest the word (“slave”) jesus supposedly used to refer to his appointees on earth to dispense spiritual food on earth.

(mathew 24:45) why not a better word, something positive in view of the fact that jesus came to free us?

freedom is the absence of physical and mental boundaries or restrictions.

jp1692

Really? How did "slave" come to mean MASTER?

Changing the basic meanings of words to the exact opposite of what they really mean is one sign of a cult!

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

UTC: The speaker dogmatically mentions the important year 607bce about 3 or 4 times. He mentions 1914 a couple of times, 1919, and even mentions the generation and refers to brother Splanes [sic] very good explanation and diagram on JW.org 🙄

Personally, I think Splane (or who ever is really in charge at the WTBTS) plagiarized that chart from this three year old thread on this forum:

This Overlapping Generation teaching is really complete nonsense

Timeline:

January 15, 2014: Watchtower Study Article: "Let Your Kingdom Come" But When?, (p. 30-31, paragraphs 14 - 16): WT attempts to explain 1st & 2nd Groups of "THIS GENERATION [That] WILL NOT PASS AWAY"
April 2014: Oubliette posts a chart on JWN parodying the Overlapping Generation (OG) nonsense
September 2015: Splane attempts to 'splain the OG nonsense using a chart suspiciously derivative of one previously posted here on JWN. (Click here for a review of that jw-tv episode).

Careful readers will notice the footnote in the above chart about conflicting dates for Fred Franz' baptism. This is a point in WT "theology," chronology and history that previously has not been discussed much, and curiously Splane also refers to this obscure point in his presentation.

Coincidence? Conspiracy theory?

Do the math!