jp1692

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Posts by jp1692

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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  jp1692

  Where is the line drawn?

  At octpopus. (See my previous posts in this thread if you want/need clarification).
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  10

  backhanded compliment to Sunday speaker

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a couple years ago we had a speaker, better than average, give the talk.

  since i was still pretty much a believer, i commented to him how i enjoyed the talk, and how it was "entertaining".

  it was, but he got mad as it was one of the beat the fear of god (governing body) into you talks.

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  jp1692

  Brother Speaker: So how did you enjoy the talk?

  jo1692: Mostly by sleeping through it. 😉

  BS somewhat taken aback: Funny!

  jp: Seriously though, there were some parts I enjoyed more than others.

  BS feeling more confident: Oh yeah, what was your favorite part?

  jp: The part when you quit talking! 😝
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  jp1692

  OC: Can there be a consciousness without a brain?

  That was the implicit question that the panel of scientist address at the Francis Crick Memorial Conference on Consciousness in Human and non Human Animals which I linked on page 2 of this thread.

  Click here to read that post.
  
• 
  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  jp1692

  SBF, The Goff essay was interesting, although I did not find it conclusive. Thanks for sharing it.

  SBF: If you say there is no evidence for option 2, it's fair to point out that there is no evidence for option 1 either.

  It does not follow that the denial of #2 implies that #1 is false also. I completely disagree. There's a huge, repeat HUGE, gap between the two statements. I believe you know this, so your statement surprises me.
  

  SBF: It's commonly taken for granted that awareness is a special property of some beings, and it's postulated this property somehow emerges from dull matter. There is no prooof (sic) for these assertions either.

  You are (or at least seem to be) contradicting yourself here. Indeed, you began your this post by stating that "we know we are personally conscious. It's the one thing in the world we can be absolutely sure about."

  This is the fundamental premise from Descartes when he uttered his famous dictum: "Cogito ergo sum"

  Consciousness and/or awareness exists. How it arose is the question. As I wrote earlier:

  From whence does consciousness arise? That is the question.
  

  Our present lack of knowledge of how that happened does not imply or even suggest that rocks and electrons are conscious too.

  I remain unconvinced.
  
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  25

  Charles Manson Is Dead

  by Bangalore in

  1. social
  2. current

  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/obituaries/charles-manson-dead.html.

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  jp1692

  At times like this I’m almost sorry there isn’t some special place in Hell for the likes of Manson.
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  26

  January 2018 Message of Judgment - What Is This?

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've now seen a couple of references to this and did a little digging before leaving for work.

  i saw someone on reddit in july saying that someone on the inside said a change was coming in 2018 with the jw message, and i've now seen two references to this in the past week.

  help a former brother out.

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  jp1692

  Nothing new here. Move along!
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  11

  stupid questions

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  paragraph 4 today: "what are we gonna consider?

  " maybe that is the article title?

  the other is: "what will we consider next week?

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  jp1692

  Let's review what we just learned: It’s a cult!
  
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

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  jp1692

  The basic point is that awareness is a property of all matter

  Okay. Please give me a working definition of “awareness” and then provide evidence to support this claim arguing coherently for example that a quark or a lepton is aware.
• 
  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

  1. 
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  jp1692

  Cofty, yes I understand what it is about and what it I is not.

  My point in sharing that is how scientists address the question. Hopefully posters will read it and notice the scientists involved did not even include all living things in their statement because they found no evidence to say that a flower, for example, is conscious and aware.

  If flowers aren’t conscious then certainly the dirt in which they grow is even less so.

  All elements are different and have unique properties, but apparently as far as we know all sub-atomic particles, of which all atoms are comprised, are identical one to another.

  In other words, a helium atom is different from an oxygen atom or a calcium atom. Yet they are all made of protons, neutrons, electrons which in turn are constructed of even smaller, more elementary particles: leptons, quarks, bosons and neutrinos.

  All current evidence indicates they these sub-atomic and more fundamental quantum level particles are identical one to another (within their classification).

  To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, “A quark is a quark is a quark.”
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  142

  Panpsychism - a philosophy with a future

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  at one time scientists believed that living things and non-living things were made of different material, accounting for the unique properties of living things.

  this idea is called vitalism and is no longer popular.

  what does remain popular (in fact is still the dominant view) is a similar idea that things that experience the world (humans, frogs, mice) are different from things that don't experience the world (potatoes, rocks, snowflakes).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jp1692

  From whence does consciousness arise?

  There’s your question.

  Even if the universe is conscious, it does not follow that every rock (or whatever) is conscious and self-aware.

  You might be conscious, but your toenail is not—particularly not after you’ve trimmed it and tossed it in the dustbin.