jp1692

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Posts by jp1692

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  81

  Gerrit Losch Claims JW's Attending College Are Spiritually Weak

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.facebook.com/jw.0027/videos/799049613609936/.

  the video was posted directly to a pro-jw facebook page.

  i cant believe what i'm hearing... actually, nothing surprises be about this cult anymore.. didn't they say to the judge in the arc that they dont discourage college?.

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  jp1692

  No-zombie: This recording is from quite an old assembly program.
  

  No-zombie is right. This video is apparently from a convention in Monza, Italy, May 22, 2005.

  Here are a couple of links supporting this:

  • Jehovah's Witnesses and College
  • Governing Body on Higher Education Gerrit Lösch Talk
    
    
    

  • Are Jehovah's Witnesses Lying To Scare Kids From College??
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  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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  jp1692

  TS: the whole concept of evolution is an improvement over it's genetic predecessor

  Um, no. That is not the "whole concept of evolution."

  The natural forces that select genetic changes are blind and unintelligent. There is no consciousness deciding: "This is better than that."

  It just happens.

  More to follow ...
  
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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  jp1692

  I researched this a few years ago and--as far as I can find--there is only ONE WT article that implies that JW men should not have beards. Here it is:
  
  

  *** w75 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 9 - Do Not Let Yourself Be Ensnared by Fads and Entertainment ***
  
  Extreme hair styles can easily lead one into a trap of the Devil also, and cause others to stumble. For example, a young man in the United States was making fine progress in his study of the Bible, and he was moved to share with an experienced Witness in preaching to others about the good things he was learning from the Bible. From early youth he had let his beard grow, and since some in the business community wore beards, he felt that his wearing one in preaching to others would be acceptable generally. But in speaking to a lady he was unable to do more than introduce himself, when she said:
  
  “I’m sorry, young man, I do not want to become involved in student revolt.”
  
  No amount of explanation after this sufficed to clear up the misimpression. After the conversation ended with the closing of the door, he asked the experienced Witness what had happened. He was invited to consider his appearance in relation to what he claimed to be, a servant of God. Not wanting to be responsible for even one person’s being stumbled so as to miss the way to everlasting life, this new Kingdom publisher shaved off his beard. Would you be willing to do the same or to make similar adjustments if your appearance gave the wrong impression in a certain community? - Emphasis added
  

  So here's my takeaway: Because some unnamed lady sometime back in the '70s (or maybe even earlier) from "a certain [un-named] community" in some undisclosed location somewhere in the United States had the opinion that any young man with a beard would try to persuade her "to become involved in student revolt,"JWs all across the world can't/shouldn't have beards!

  Well that seems perfectly reasonable to me!

  I wonder whatever happened to that lady? Do you think she knew she was making Theocratic Doctrine? She must've been one of the anointed, a member of the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" class, no doubt!!!

  Hmmmm, ...
  
  
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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  jp1692

  Rutherford wanted to squash Russell's image in the organization
  

  *** yb74 pp. 97-98 Part 1—Germany ***But more equipment was needed. For that reason Brother Balzereit asked Brother Rutherford for permission to buy a rotary press. Brother Rutherford saw the necessity and agreed, but on one condition. He had noticed that over the years Brother Balzereit had grown a beard very similar to the one that had been worn by Brother Russell. His example soon caught on, for there were others who also wanted to look like Brother Russell. This could give rise to a tendency toward creature worship, and Brother Rutherford wanted to prevent this. So during his next visit, within hearing of all the Bible House family, he told Brother Balzereit that he could buy the rotary press but only on the condition that he shave off his beard. Brother Balzereit sadly agreed and afterward went to the barber.
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  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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  jp1692

  Truthseeker: It is possible that if this were the case, the story of Adam and Eve (being the first modern humans) could have a grain of truth to it.

  But there was no "first human." This common belief shows a lack of understanding of what evolution is and how it works in creating changes in biological organisms over time.

  You, as a seeker of truth, may find this short PBS video informative and thought-provoking:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdWLhXi24Mo
  
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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  jp1692

  For context, here's an excerpt from the more recent WT article: Does Your Style of Dress Glorify God? (The Watchtower, September 2016, Study edition, pages 17 - 21, paragraph 17):

  What are some factors that may affect whether a brother wears a beard?
  

  17 What about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard? The Mosaic Law required men to wear a beard. However, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, nor are they obliged to observe it. (Lev. 19:27; 21:5; Gal. 3:24, 25) In some cultures, a neatly trimmed beard may be acceptable and respectable, and it may not detract at all from the Kingdom message. In fact, some appointed brothers have beards. Even so, some brothers might decide not to wear a beard. (1 Cor. 8:9, 13; 10:32) In other cultures or localities, beards are not the custom and are not considered acceptable for Christian ministers. In fact, having one may hinder a brother from bringing glory to God by his dress and grooming and his being irreprehensible.—Rom. 15:1-3; 1 Tim. 3:2, 7.

  A careful reading of this paragraph reveals that it doesn't really say anything definitive one way or another. It is notable for being abstruse, that is: difficult to understand for its lack of clarity on an issue about which many people would like just that--clarity and a definite stand.

  I could easily argue any position--beard or no beard--from this wishy-washy, obfuscating drivel. So again, it just comes down to whatever the local elders are going to allow and/or prohibit. But they don't make rules. But they DO have the position of authority according to the religion's hierarchy and power structure. They have it and you don't.

  Again, it's NOT about doctrine or "Bible principles" no matter how frequently they say so with all the appropriate hand-waving; it IS about one thing: CONTROL.
  
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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  jp1692

  UTC quotes the "Branch Correspondence Guidelines":

  Without making rigid rules or getting involved in giving yes or no answers, elders should recommend what is appropriate dress and grooming by explaining Bible principles. (w77 3/1 149-50; w72 4/1 222-4) Draw attention to these, and encourage the brothers to make their decisions accordingly.

  Translation: We (the local elders) do not make rules. However, we have "recommended" that wearing a beard is not "appropriate dress and grooming" and we have "explained" that to you using "Bible principles." We therefore "encourage" you to make your "decision accordingly": SHAVE IT OFF!

  

  Note that the reference cited for "Bible principles" is NOT even to the Bible, but to two Watchtower magazines, one 40 years old, the other 45. These magazines are so old that it is unlikely that the majority of current JWs would have any possible way to read them and look up what they say. The jw.org website only has Watchtower magazines going back to the year 2000.
  

  But we don't make rules and we only follow the Bible. Yeah, right!
  
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  6

  Getting pissed with Sean and Michael (Hollywood Memory)

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  getting pissed with sean and michael (hollywood memory).

  the year is 1983. .

  two new james bond films are slated for release, one of which will star the one, the only, sean connery, while the other one sports jolly roger moore.. never say never again vs octopussy, and i am one of the original james bond fanatics--so, how can i possibly miss out on the opportunity to attend the world premiere of connery’s flick?

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  jp1692

  Terry: I was high on my V.I.P. status! That's my only excuse for taking the center

  V.I.P. = Very Important Piss
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  44

  Why Do People Become JWs?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was born in the religion but why on earth do people join this religion?

  ?.

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  jp1692

  Outlaw: I knew my post would ruffle some feathers...LOL!!
  

  In your first post on this thread you answered the OP question "Why Do People Become JWs?" with:

  1) Stupid: Too dumb to see it`s a con game.

  It is this comment that I disagreed with above.

  In your second post you wrote:

  There are JW`s … who [are] highly knowledgeable about one subject but knows little about anything else
  

  I completely agree with this. The difference is one of knowledge, not intelligence.

  For the record, my feathers are completely unruffled!

  
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  44

  Why Do People Become JWs?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was born in the religion but why on earth do people join this religion?

  ?.

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  jp1692

  Normally I like Outlaw's irreverent and sarcastic "fly-by" style, but I have to disagree with him on this one.

  There is no correlation with below average intelligence and gullibility when it comes to joining cults of any kind. In fact, research (which is fairly limited) suggests just the opposite. Intelligent, creative people (that are unaware of the manipulative methods of control and coercion used by cults) are in some ways more vulnerable because their imaginative minds more readily fill in the blanks and missing pieces of the cult ideology when they are (unwittingly) becoming indoctrinated.

  Couple that with an individual being in an emotionally vulnerable time, add some easy answers and a dash of hope and you have a new recruit. Voila!