jp1692

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Posts by jp1692

• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  jp1692

  Ruby: If you have mental health issues then it is best to stay away from witnesses.

  It's just best to stay away from JWs, and ANY cult for that matter, whether you have mental health issues or not!

  So Ruby, I just searched the paper by Laurence R. Iannaccone which you referenced on page 4: "Why Strict Churches Are Strong."

  Why did you reference this in relation to the OP? "Suicide" wasn't mentioned once in the entire 32 page paper and, although JWs were mentioned four times, none of those references had anything to do with mental health!

  That being said, there was an intriguing comment made by Iannaccone in his conclusion when he wrote: "A study of unsuccessful sects is needed to test the [rational choice theory] theory's prediction that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little." Although I fail to see the need to restrict such a study to "unsuccessful sects," the questions raised by this recommendation about high-control, authoritarian groups (aka "cults") are very germane to the topic under discussion.

  I would also caution that a paper like this is limited in its application to groups like JWs, because the very underlying assumption of "rational choice theory" does not apply to cults. No one willingly and knowingly join a destruction cult. They join a group which they perceive as benign at the least and hope is very positive. The harmful effects are hidden and only discovered after one has made the commitment.

  Also, Iannaccone's comment that "that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little" is simply not true. Too little strictness never leads to tragedies such as Jonestown. Fundamentalist extremism of all sorts are malignant cancers of the soul and psyche.
  
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  8

  Existential Psychotherapy

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  existential psychotherapy: death, freedom, isolation, meaninglessness .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhqc5md6qv0.

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  jp1692

  That's some pretty heavy stuff!

  My takeaway from the video was that what kind of life we have is not just about our circumstances, but it is up to us as individuals to do the hard work to have the kind of life we can and should have. Most people just aren't up to doing the hard work. They want easy answers even if it means being used, abused and taken advantage of.
  
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  10

  I've created a survey

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi guys.

  thanks for taking part in the previous poll i did about disfellowshipping.. i've created a survey here: https://goo.gl/atcm22.

  and the results will be published here: https://goo.gl/qzqzjd.

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  jp1692

  I'll be interested in seeing your surveys after a few more years of university studies!
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  50

  Jehovah's people are not happy people

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i finally stopped attending the meetings about 4 months go.

  i won't be going back - ever.. but i've decided the best reply to the watchtower is to be happy and i do try to be happy every day even thought i wasted my entire life on this religion.

  i cherish every day, practice mindfulness and do my best to be content with the life i have.. it is only now that i see that most jws i know are deeply unhappy people.

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  jp1692

  Steve2: I saw parts of Morris III's opening address for the current Summer convention. Within minutes, a memory of that depressed old feeling began to hover over me as he lamely enumerated all the disasters in the world and how these are critical times hard to deal with.

  JWs view the world through shit-colored glasses. They only see the bad because they need it to confirm their apocalyptic beliefs and worldview.

  There is abundant evidence that this is, in fact, the best and safest time for most of us to be alive. But JWs only look for bad news to prop up their beliefs.

  It's enough to drive anyone crazy!
• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  jp1692

  Ok, so now we have two posters--Notalone and Ruby--asserting completely contradictory information about the suicide rates of JWs in comparison to others, and yet neither of them can or will provide independently verifiable data to back up their assertions:

  • Notalone: We all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.
  • Ruby: The suicide rate isn't higher among JWs than general populations. In fact it is lower.

  Careful, thoughtful people avoid making unfounded assertions. They also avoid accepting them uncritically and unchallenged.
  

  Demand facts. Ask questions. Think critically.
• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  jp1692

  Ruby: the suicide rate isn't higher among JWs than general populations. in fact it is lower.

  How do you know this? What facts do you have to substantiate this claim?

  I looked at the link you provided and I could not find a single, specific reference to Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Please provide evidence and data to back up your claim.

  Thanks,

  JP
  
• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

  1. 
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  jp1692

  Notalone: We all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  This is obviously an important topic. It needs to be addressed and needs to be addressed with some sensitivity. It also needs to be factually accurate. And so I'm going to ask some direct questions:
  

  1. How do "we all know" this?
  2. What data do you have to back it up?
  3. How was it collected and by whom?

  I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of this topic. Indeed, one suicide is too many to me. But we need to be careful making statements that are not substantiated by facts.

  If you have some, please provide them.

  Steve2 provided a few excellent points for consideration in this regard too.

  Thanks,

  JP
  
• 
  119

  Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

  i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

  i was born in.

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  jp1692

  Unsure, I think you're going to need to change your username as you seem less and less unsure of yourself with each successive post!

  PS: I'm glad to know you're not coveting my ox or my donkey!
  
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  13

  A Poll Regarding Shunning

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've created a poll here: https://goo.gl/7xburo.

  i'd be interested in seeing the results.. .

  #qp_main1119848 .qp_btna:hover input {background:#00355f!important} #qp_all1119848 {max-width:815px; margin:0 auto;}if watchtower scrapped the shunning policy due to "new light" and your family suddenly agreed to speak to you again would you accept them back?.

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  jp1692

  I voted YES but I have a couple of problems with the question as worded:

  If Watchtower scrapped the shunning policy due to "new light" and your family suddenly agreed to speak to you again would you accept them back?

  First, I couldn't "accept them back" because I have never shunned them. The shunning has always been just one-way.

  So, if my recalcitrant family members that have shunned me suddenly got back in touch I would welcome them. But I would be hesitant. While I wouldn't put any conditions on our relationship, I would be cautious. I would also have no problem letting them know (when appropriate) that I was very hurt by their behavior and that--if they want to become restored to my good graces--they will have to rebuild their trust with me.

  I think it's important to keep in mind that (and without absolving them of responsibility) they are victims too.

  Finally, your question only allows for family members to attempt to reconcile due to a change in WT policy on shunning. Would it be different if our family members decided to reconcile in spite of no such change? I think so.

  Either way, I would want an explanation for their actions then and now, but I wouldn't needlessly expect them to be hoisted with their own petard of guilt and shame as the elders do in requiring excessive shows of sorrow and repentance.
  

  (BTW, I am neither DF'd or DA'd, just inactive, but I am shunned nevertheless due apparently to my lack of attendance at the KH and my insistence upon having a beard and wearing brightly colored socks).
  
  
  
• 
  119

  Do I have to believe in Jesus to be saved?

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do i have to believe in jesus to be saved?.

  i was raised as a jehovah's witness.

  i was born in.

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  jp1692

  Unsure: The more I think about it and the more I try to reason on it, the more it all just doesn't make sense.

  That's because it doesn't make sense. You can't make sense out of nonsense no matter how hard you try.

  Unsure: If you are a good person, you should be saved.

  Why?

  And who determines "good"? How "good" do you have to be? How far can you "fall short" and still be "good enough" to saved? What if you lost out on eternal salvation because of that towel you swiped from the hotel? Or the extra penny you got as change and didn't give back to the storekeeper? Or that scrap of paper you inadvertently dropped getting out of your car? Oh the horror!
  

  It's hopeless and you'll never get an answer that is definitive because there isn't one.
  

  And let's not forget my earlier question: Saved from what?

  When I asked you for clarification about that above, you answered: Adamic sin. But it is only the Abrahamic religions that even acknowledge the Genesis story as part of their culture, and not all of them accept it as literal. Do you not see that you are coming at this question from a distinctly Christian point of view? (And a particular "Christian" one at that). This severely limits your ability to see and consider other possible answers.
  

  Unsure: if God is love, salvation shouldn't be conditional based on belief.

  According to who? Your gut. That's what you also wrote in your last post.

  Do you really want to base your most important belief--one that can affect everything about how you live your life now and in anticipation of an afterlife that may or may not come true--on your "gut feeling"? That doesn't seem like a very sound way to make important, life-changing decisions.
  

  What if it's just gas or indigestion?

  What if God isn't love? (Where does THAT idea come from anyway?)

  And what if there isn't any God at all?