Posts by jp1692

12

so confused!!

by whatisthis12 in

is it possible to keep a somewhat relationship with your family if they are witnesses and have a "worldly" girlfriend?

i just posted a post, and found this site to be very helpful.

sorry to repost but my other thread brought up some other questions.

jp1692

WIT12: i don't understand how he would want to go back to a kingdom hall after everything he's already gone through to get out.

Of course, this would be confusing to you.

But it's because he hasn't really left the religion completely.

People "leave" for all kinds of reasons. But--and this has been addressed in your previous thread--if a person still believes that JWs "have the Truth," they may return.

Most of us on this forum are completely convinced that JWs are just another religion doctrinally, but are worse than most because of their high-control, authoritarian and cultish practices: the coercive control and manipulation of members and the shunning of any and all that leave no matter the reason.

There is a reason that so many people that responded to your first thread used the term "cult" in their response. Do not ignore this.

We here are former and wanna-be-former Jehovah's Witnesses. We here have lost family and friends because we left the religion.

We know of what we speak.

28

My Boyfriend is a recent Ex Jehovah Witness

by whatisthis12 in

i have been dating my boyfriend for almost a year now.

when i met him i had no idea that he was a jehovah witness.

we took a vacation and he lied to his parents about who he was with, and they ended up finding out not only that he way lying, but who i was.

jp1692

WIT12, You have received a lot of really good, balanced advice in response to your post.

I would like to add that it is extremely significant that most of us refer to our former religion as a cult.

DO NOT MISS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS FACT!

Most ex-JWs have had many--and for some of us, all--family relationships destroyed as a result of our association with this religion.

You probably don't like hearing this, but you need to. Ignore it at your own peril. Listen and learn.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

Darkspilver, thank you for sharing this reference.

This quote here really addresses my question:

"The Bible does not comment on the biology of homosexuality, although it acknowledges that some human traits are deeply ingrained."

Clearly, the WTBTS is avoiding directly commenting on the reality of biology in reference to human sexuality as elucidated by science and abundant empirical data. They hide behind this bit of theological subterfuge and obfuscation: "Since the Bible doesn't comment on it, neither will we."

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

"Millions of heterosexuals ... are able to live happily without fulfilling their sexual urges. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God" (Awake!, December, 2010, p. 22).

Translation: Millions of people live celibate lives because of situations beyond their control. If you are LGBTQIA, then you can and should too!

I'm not even going to touch how illogical and fucked-up this WT quote is on it's face. And Slimboyfat is absolutely correct that the "situations are not equivalent."

But what I DO want to point out is this: It is one thing to deny an "urge" or "temptation." It is quite another thing to deny who you are.

This is a key difference that--as far as I know--the WT has never addressed and shows a willful blindness in their adamant refusal to acknowledge.

A person can choose to wear colored socks or not. They can choose to wear tight-pants or not. We cannot choose to change who we are are our core. This is often manifest in behaviors, traits and mannerisms that are intrinsic to our identity and cannot be hidden or covered up by a "WT Approved" set of clothes.

The implicit message in WT propaganda remains the same: Deny yourself. Become as we are.

(Of course, this is true of all cults and is in fact one line of proof that a particular group is a cult.) This is why the WTBTS loves trotting out Romans 12:2 in relation to this and related issues:

And stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Scriptures like this seem to add legitimacy to admonitions to deny your true, authentic self. And if you still believe in the authority of the Bible, you will feel its pressure--insistent and unrelentingly corrosive to your soul.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

Sir82: they say things like "Even if certain persons are pre-disposed toward homosexuality, they should exercise self-control ..."

Is that a direct quote or your own paraphrase? If it's a quote, can you please provide the source?

I suspect any change is more of an unofficial, unwritten thing which of course would only add to the confusion.

Thanks!

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: I don't think so. I think the official JW position now is that gay people are probably born that way but that they should deny themselves.

I no longer regularly read WT publications so I can't comment. But I would like to know if there has been a change in their "official position" on this.

I remember two years ago there was quite a bit of discussion about a CO's letter regarding "gender blurring" dress and behaviors. (Click here for that discussion). But that letter discussed outward dress and grooming and perceived "gender blurring characteristics" including body-language, mannerisms and traits. It did not specifically address the issue you mentioned: whether or not people are born homosexual. (That the WT wants LGBTQIA individuals to deny themselves is evident from that CO's letter).

Do you have any direct quotations to support the change in viewpoint on the part of the WTBTS? I would certainly appreciate having written confirmation of such a change.

Thanks!

jp

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: On the gay issue, I thought it was interesting the wife said something like, "gay people are born that way, they don't choose it".

Good for her and you!

Of course, if she goes around saying things like that at the KH she'll soon find herself in a meeting with a couple of elders in the backroom.

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

jp1692

SBF: Even the assumption "there is a God" can be broken down.

That's true, which is why I restricted my comments to the God of the Bible.

28

My Boyfriend is a recent Ex Jehovah Witness

by whatisthis12 in

i have been dating my boyfriend for almost a year now.

when i met him i had no idea that he was a jehovah witness.

we took a vacation and he lied to his parents about who he was with, and they ended up finding out not only that he way lying, but who i was.

jp1692

WIT12: I feel like i will always be the girl that made him lose his relationship with his family and friends

That's not on you; that's on his family and friends.

It might help your BF to seek some counseling to help him untangle the mess of beliefs and emotions that he must be experiencing as a result of leaving this religion. It might even be helpful for you to go with him, at least for some of the sessions.

The one problem is that most therapists and counselors are not really familiar with the issues ex-cult members face. (Yes, JWs are a cult).

Here is a link to a resource that you might find helpful:

Document for Therapists - Bonnie Ziemann, PhD

Although she is now retired, Ziemann is both a therapist and a former, born-in Jehovah’s Witness.

This is from her website:

"Bonnie has the skills, knowledge, education and experience with which she can offer others help to leave high-control environments and recover from mind-control, coercion, manipulation and/or abuse."

Best wishes to you both!

20

Lessons learned from the wife of lot drama

by purrpurr in

the video drama shown at the recent comvention was called "the wife of lot".

i noticed some stuble lessons being taught in this soap opera style video.... firstly, all the bad influence comes from women, its the wife and the mother in law whose pushing for more money and a better lifestyle.

while the men remain loyal to god, can't show the men going astray now can we?.

jp1692

SBF: Or actually maybe it was intentional, to say no job, no matter how worthy, is as important as being a good JW.

That's more likely, methinks.