thebrokenkite

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Posts by thebrokenkite

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  18

  What would you do for next November 5?

  by Faded in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think everything has to start somewhere, and you can see the passion and commitment from those loyal 50 that showed up in warwick yesterday.

  the event was not very well organized but you could see the passion & dedication from most of them.

  and i think they at least touched a couple of people at the kh yesterday.. having an annual day of action actually inspires me.

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  thebrokenkite

  @drearyweather My point exactly. Use JW training and tactics against them. Call it sub-cultural appropriation. ;)
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  18

  What would you do for next November 5?

  by Faded in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think everything has to start somewhere, and you can see the passion and commitment from those loyal 50 that showed up in warwick yesterday.

  the event was not very well organized but you could see the passion & dedication from most of them.

  and i think they at least touched a couple of people at the kh yesterday.. having an annual day of action actually inspires me.

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  thebrokenkite

  I’m not sure that I saw the same nobility on display that you did, but I am a very skeptical (perhaps cynical) person. I think the simplest answer is that we should use Watchtower training or tactics against Watchtower.

  For one, ringleaders should have a solid résumé in the religion. It’s hard for anyone to take seriously an apostate who was not very active or sincere and is now speaking out. It plays better publicly to put at the forefront those who really believed and lived the lie and makes it more difficult for Watchtower to discredit them. It would be easier for apostates like me to believe that folks with a substantial track record are not chasing personal glory. Figures of this caliber also do much more to grab the attention of curious JWs. Think of how carefully vetted anyone used in Watchtower publications is. This would require that too many folks currently “spearheading” the movement stay in the background, which I think will be an impossible sell. No one wants to feel their value is increased on the sidelines, especially those seeking attention for their activism. I’m not saying people shouldn’t tell their stories, as some find it therapeutic, but some could be a bit more tame or altogether absent from events where media is present.

  For me, the biggest issue is the amateurism about the ordeal. I don’t want to hear that “it’s a start” anymore, especially considering this very protest had been in the works for years and that some of the organizers were elders who had previously helped organize much larger events, I’m sure.
  

  A clear theme should be selected, and signs should be designed accordingly and collectively approved. The theme should be something that is easily understood by non-JWs and pulls at their heart strings.

  A dress code should allow for the comfort of the protesters, while not detracting from their message before an ultra-conservative audience hung up on dress and grooming.

  A wide available, exact time, location, and itinerary would perhaps whet the appetite of those on the fence about attending.

  Don’t protest in front of HQ. It’s a waste of time. Print out informative tracts like Watchtowers and blitz Warwick going door to door and inviting other community churches along. That’s a story a newspaper or local news channel can get behind. Encroaching on the JWs’ self-proclaimed trademark might be the only thing that could rile the feathers of the HQ brass.

  I also think Morpheus has a great idea. Why not choose a date significant to all JWs that doesn’t require taking a day off work? The first Saturday of October would see a lot more JW traffic and may sow seeds in the mind of some AM attendees.

  There’s much more that could be done to legitimize the spectacle, but I really don’t see the current ringleaders whose efforts are counterproductive taking one for the team and stepping aside or allowing for a more democratic approach.
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  55

  11-5-17 Warwick Protest Photos

  by thebrokenkite in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  let the reader use discernment:.

  i was disfellowshipped in june of last year.

  while i've been awake for nearly a year, i still often feel groggy.

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  thebrokenkite

  Sorry, guys. I tried but I'm not savvy enough to figure out how to upload all the photos here so here's the link to the dropbox files in full resolution: https://www.dropbox.com/home/11-5-17%20Warwick%20Protest
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  55

  11-5-17 Warwick Protest Photos

  by thebrokenkite in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  let the reader use discernment:.

  i was disfellowshipped in june of last year.

  while i've been awake for nearly a year, i still often feel groggy.

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  thebrokenkite

  Let the reader use discernment:

  I was disfellowshipped in June of last year. While I've been awake for nearly a year, I still often feel groggy. My wife's been a godsend, in the proverbial sense, but there are so many uniquely-JW things that are difficult to explain to a non-JW. That's what sparked my curiosity in the Warwick protest I'd first heard about on this site.
  

  We spent too much of our Saturday looking for an exact time, location, or itinerary, all to no avail. We nonetheless made the hourlong trek from our cozy Queens apartment to Ringwood State Park, In the Middle of Nowhere, NY. We were the third apostate party at the apostate party. All arrived around 1:00 PM, the previously-unknown-to-us scheduled start time. There were friendly but, at times, painfully awkward interactions. I felt like I was at an assembly. My wife preferred the heated car to "my" crowd.
  

  Spike R graciously fielded all the "You're the teddy bear?" questions posed him. I didn't know who he was, but he struck me as gentle, humble, and sincere. I could see he was a good elder in a former life.

  I nearly mistook Parker's (aka "Fateful Slave") arrival for that of a celebrity's at the MET Gala. Some fan-boyed and he did not seem to mind. I didn't know who he was, either. We shook hands but didn't speak beyond that. He brought copies of his book along to award deserving apostates, even interrupting Neil Gardner's (aka "The Great Apostate") part on the symposium to offer it as the prize for correctly answering an apostate trivia question. I felt like I was at the unwholesome version of a JW gathering where we'd take turns guessing which Bible character we were in exchange for "extra days of everlasting life". He also used his outdoor voice (to be fair, we were outdoors) while again hijacking Neil's part to answer phone calls. I found his style of apostasy to be very niche. I don't know; I think I'm just not a fan of suits in sneakers.

  I'm not familiar with Neil's work on YouTube, but I'm leaving him a 5-star review on Yelp. We introduced ourselves and instantly liked him. He seemed kind, genuine, and unassuming. My wife liked his accent, anyway. I think he would be a good public ambassador for this movement, as he's very intelligent, likable, and seems normal.
  

  Joel Martz arrived around then and I introduced myself. I'm not sure what his responsibilities were within the organization, but something about our exchange reminded me of the way certain self-inflated "prominent" ones dealt with those of little benefit to them. I know I look young and therefore statistically less likely to have scaled high or have been devout, but I didn't know who he was either. I suppose his mind could've been elsewhere; I'lll give him the benefit of a doubt.
  

  Someone brought a mic and an amp, but there was clearly no program or much else, for that matter. I think if all truly cared about reaching their supposed targets, they would've dressed in a way more palatable for them. Some wore sweat pants, trench coats, even disguises! There was a lot of Superhero apparel, which I hardly think is coincidental, though perhaps subconscious. And here I had even trimmed my beard and worn a sweater vest! The few signs there were had to be covered, at the police's request. They kept an eye on us, but their camp was in the apostate corner.
  

  Neil, Parker, Joel, Gilbert from JW Crisis, Spike R, Spoonfednomore, and a few others spoke. I noticed the common denominator for most of them was an apostate YouTube channel in need of content. I'm not insinuating all of them were there for this reason alone, but I think too many were. A former elder, or a rising YouTube star (I don't know who these people are) told his tale, making sure to include his and his son's partaking of the emblems at the most recent Memorial. I scratched my head about that one for a while. Do/did they really believe they were/are anointed? I would've probably stayed in if I was anointed. Could've made GB...

  Once the YouTube stars and Christ's brother spoke, the open mic session was over. It was only then that the logistics of the protest in front of the HQ were discussed. Gilbert took the lead and it was actually decided that we break up into car groups and head to the territory in question. He made an analogy to the spies of Jericho and the group went forth. I looked around and wondered if anyone else realized that this was a meeting for field service. It was also amazing how many JW traits were still at play with many of these folks, ranging from their humor to their humble-bragging about former privileges. When asked, I disclosed I had been at Bethel 3 years and even my wife remarked that the reactions creeped her out. They still had the glow in their eyes a diehard JW has when hearing that name. It goes without saying that the Missus insisted we drive ourselves to HQ. I felt like those couples that would go to the meeting for field service and say they had a study straight away and had to go alone, only to return immediately home and hide the car.

  For those unfamiliar with the Empire's new digs, everything about Warwick was meticulously designed with every possible scenario in mind, including this one. For instance, there really is no way to protest near the gates without trespassing. You have to stand across the road with two-way traffic in between. It's not safe and a large protest is not possible. The sprinklers were turned on and either spun a full 180 degrees or Watchtower had pointed them in the direction of the cement driveway. There's no safe place to park nearby, either. None of this is coincidental. Furthermore, the long driveway leading to the gates is guarded by watchmen in a booth outside. Inside a pickup truck was parked for added security. Police hid nearby in case things got testy.
  

  We stayed in our car and waited to see what the other would do. It took less than 10 minutes for two protesters to make fools of themselves by walking into the sprinklers Watchtower had clearly turned on for them. That was exactly the behavior Watchtower expected to see. It accomplished nothing besides potentially getting them sick and cementing the propaganda that apostates are crazy. I was disappointed to see Gilbert leading this comic display.
  

  After that, I decided to just take pictures and speak to a few of the other protesters. The police came when a few of the YouTube apostates theatrically slow-walked up to the gates, but left without addressing the protesters. A few people honked in support as they drove by, but that road doesn’t see much traffic and the facilities are so far from the gate, I doubt more than the handful of Bethelites that exited or were charged with security took note. Joel stated that the local congregations received instruction to cancel preaching activities in the area on 10/4, though I cannot confirm that. The park ranger did say someone had called his office to ask that the protest be shut down, citing concerns for his or her family's safety.
  

  I tried multiple times to not be an introvert and connect with protesters but there was inevitably that huge homeschooled-JW-social-awkwardness factor or their stories took turns that seemed unlikely or exaggerated. I left after getting the photos below, and they left not long after. There was a very local TV outlet there, but no one else from the community turned out. There were only about 40 protesters there, as shown in the pictures. I did make my first apostate friends with some folks who are still in and privy to documents detailing specific incidents of child sex abuse, who I’m hoping to collaborate with.
  

  I couldn't help but chuckle at the thought of how the poor weather would be used as the setting for a story about how Jehovah delivered His House from the hands of the evil apostates and how it surely signaled the imminence of the Great Tribulation. Very little was accomplished but I don't regret going. I think it provided guidance regarding the type of advocacy I want to engage in and gave me inspiration for meaningful action.
  

  As I mentioned in another thread, these things need to be more organized and folks need to examine why they’re really doing it. I felt like some were still chasing the prominence that eluded them while members of the organization, which plays beautifully into Watchtower's portrayal of us as sore losers. Others seemed to just want to feel good about themselves, as morpheus bluntly pointed out in another thread. I also felt that, for victims, they seemed too cheerful. Signs alleging abuse or cruelty were held under smiles and laughter. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be happy; I'm saying that even when I was ACTUALLY sick, I would still play it up to make sure my mom would give in. The signs lacked cohesion and some did more to confuse than expose. They also seemed to each have a different grievance to air, and some were in poor taste.
  

  My point is that if protesters can’t take their protests seriously, then neither will Watchtower or anyone else, no matter what their latest YouTube clips say. Whether it’s politically correct or not, some apostates would help more by staying home or using different methods to advocate, as theirs are too often counterproductive. The movement also needs more folks that are relatable, likeable, and had enough clout within the organization to publicly and broadly legitimize the movement and its testimonies. Those who have shouldered heavier responsibilities within the congregation than the average publisher may feel less of a need to chase after creature worship. Maybe. And instead of targeting a JW audience, which is mostly futile, I think a well-balanced, factual, and emotional approach to a secular audience would put more pressure on Watchtower. Anyway, enjoy the pictures. (Update: If they ever upload...)
  
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  110

  Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

  several people speak out.

  if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

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  thebrokenkite

  @Morpheus That was the unfiltered version of my impressions from yesterday, too.
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  110

  Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

  several people speak out.

  if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

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  thebrokenkite

  @OrphanCrow +1 from me. ;) All diapers aside, I think the treatment of women in the religion is a very worthy problem to harp on and make more public. It would definitely get a lot of mainstream support from non-Dubs. They really don’t care about some of the other grievances that apostates generally push.

  i think it’s important for those of us who received training beyond the local congregation to use our experience and knowledge against Watchtower. At the very least, we can put our organizing skills to better use and identify common themes for the community like we would when we’d go out in service. We’d never go out and just ramble about prophecies or unique and often unrelateable experiences and yet that’s what too many apostates do. People don’t generally care and Watchtower absolutely does not care.
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  110

  Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

  several people speak out.

  if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

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  thebrokenkite

  @Listener, yes! That’s the guy. He actually offered practical advice that I found especially pertinent since I’m still reviewing all of my convictions. He seemed very genuine and reasonable. I should’ve counted but I have pics with most of the protestors.

  Honestly, I would love to help with something like this in the future but it’s basically an elders club. When I introduced myself to the ringleaders I got some of the same looks I got when I’d introduce myself to an assembly speaker I admired only to be ignored besides a handshake. Because I’m young, they must have assumed I was never that devout or that I must not have anything of value. These guys are still very much Witnesses, in all but name. When they broke up to go to HQ, it seriously felt like we were being dismissed from the meeting for field service to go out into the field. The GB apostate guy even quoted scriptures and made application. ;)
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  110

  Exjw activists protesting inside a Kingdom Hall today!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  spoonfed nomore, has uploaded a video on his youtube site, of exjw activists protesting inside a kingdom hall during this sunday meeting.

  several people speak out.

  if some one can put a link on here that would be awesome, i can’t figure out how to do it with an i phone.

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  thebrokenkite

  I was at the protest yesterday, with fairly low expectations, as the whole thing seemed very disorganized and amateurish, without even an exact time, location, or program. When my wife and I arrived, there were only two other “apostates” there, minutes before the scheduled start time. I went mostly to get some photos, survey the apostate scene and possibly network. Everyone rolled in shortly before the start and I found it amusing that most of the ringleaders are still very much JWs, albeit minus the theological belief. A few YouTube “star” apostates welcomed the creature worship they received and some soon started establishing themselves as the responsible ones. No one who thought their comments important enough to share seemed like a credible or likeable ex-JW, outside of “The Great Apostate” and another YouTube apostate who used to be an elder but whose name I can’t recall. They seemed like really good guys whose work I’m otherwise unfamiliar with. The organizers Parker and Joel struck me as reveling in the spotlight, with the former even bringing copies of his book to give away. It seemed like a lot of “apostates” were there for self-service, either for the attention or the fresh material for their channels.

  Very few were dress acceptably by JW standards. As has been mentioned before, that’s an easy hurdle to reduce by just dressing the part, considering the audience. The signs were very homemade, even the printed ones. They had no common thread, besides Watchtower. There was no gameplan and the logistics of the actual protest were still being arranged until it was decided that we’d carpool and park on the road along the HQ. I know it was the first time for this protest, but for so many alleged former elders to neglect the most basic arrangements seemed a bit puzzling. Some, though out, would still humble brag about the heights they reached while still active, which I found amusing and an incredible testament to the power of the JW mind control.

  We headed over and waited in the car to assess the situation and we’re quickly disappointed to see two protesters making fools of themselves by walking into the sprinklers Watchtower had clearly turned on for them. That was exactly the behavior Watchtower expected to see. It accomplished nothing besides potentially getting them sick and cementing the propaganda that apostates are crazy.

  After that, I decided to just take pictures and speak to a few of the other protesters. There was a small pickup, not a large truck, parked inside the gates and the watchman that stood guard inside the booth outside the gates. The police came when a few YouTube apostates dramatically walked up to the gates, but quickly left (only to hide further up the road in case things escalated). A few people honked in support as they drove by, but that road doesn’t see much traffic and the facilities are so far from the gate, I doubt more than the handful of Bethelites that exited or were charged with security took note. Joel Martz (?) stated that the local congregations received instruction to cancel preaching activities in the area on 10/4, though I cannot confirm that.

  I tried to connect with a few protesters but there was a huge JW-social-awkwardness factor or their stories took turns that seemed unlikely or exaggerated. I left after getting some photos, and they left not long after. There was a very local TV outlet there, but no one else from the community turned out. There were only about 40 protesters there, not anywhere near the 100 previously reported here.

  I did make my first apostate friends with some folks who are still in and privy to documents detailing specific incidents of child sex abuse, who I’m hoping to collaborate with.

  At the end of the day, these things need to be more organized and folks need to examine why they’re really doing it. If protesters can’t take their protests seriously, then neither will Watchtower or anyone else, no matter what their latest YouTube clip says. Whether it’s politically correct, or not, some apostates would help more by staying home or using different methods to advocate, as theirs are often counterproductive. The apostate movement also needs more folks that are relatable, likeable, and had enough clout within the organization to legitimize the movement and its testimonies. Instead of targeting a JW audience, which is mostly futile, I think a well-balanced, factual, and emotional approach to a secular audience would put more pressure on Watchtower. Anyway, I’ll upload pictures from the event later tonight.
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  9

  Has anyone met Anthony Morris?

  by The Real Edward Gentry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he seems like he'd be very stern and a drag to have to be around.

  obsessed with tight pants and homosexuals and all.

  so what's he really like?.

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  thebrokenkite

  FROM MY ARCHIVES:

  I once ran into him on our respective ways back from "the Office" to "the Home". He was GB and I was a fanboying 19-year-old new boy. I asked how his day was, and he told me he was writing up the talks for the upcoming RC. The only worthy spiritually-sounding and potentially career-advancing question I could muster was about his creative process. (God, I was a kiss-ass. But only to Jesus' brothers.) He was kind and indulged me but I understood he turned it on, as they all do, when in front of larger or more public crowds. We both awkwardly looked for the nearest "exits", having ended our riveting discussion but still strolling the promenade together. He ducked into 124 and I thought it best to continue, above-ground, to supper. Besides the theological stuff, he seems like a straight shooter and a decent man whom I dislike less than other decision makers for, if nothing else, having had basically a normal non-JW life and making it to GB. His wife was in housekeeping, if I'm not mistaken. In any case, I remember her not having the cushiest of GB wives' gigs. His son Jesse was at Bethel Office during my stint and he was always warm and polite, if reserved. All the young guys were crazy over his exotic-looking wife and she was a highlight of many 107 Evening Deskmen's shifts, though I could not personally see why. His other son Paul was in my aunt's congregation in Wisconsin. My family changed its opinions of him and his wife from one extreme to another, from one week to the next. To be fair, he struck me as a hard-ass and she as a finicky trophy wife. ;)
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  4

  Chapter 15 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower Slave

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  chapter 15. inwood.

  it turned out that in 1970 there was a lot of changes being made at bethel.

  one of the major changes was that a bethelite didn’t have to go to kings county or the brooklyn heights congregations first before getting assigned out to a local kingdom hall in the new york city area.

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  thebrokenkite

  Looking forward to reading your entire experience. I was in the same congregation as Daryl and his new (relatively) wife for a couple years. Thanks for sharing!