SolidSender

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Posts by SolidSender

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  30

  To celebrate or not to celebrate

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder how much validity is in the wt teaching that it's wrong to celebrate holidays.

  did jesus followers in the first century really not get involved in nationalistic activities?

  is the celebration of one's nations independence at odds with jesus and the apostle's teachings?.

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  SolidSender

  Frenchy - ooops! obviously ignore the cut and paste mistake of your original post added to mine above.-SolidSender
• 
  30

  To celebrate or not to celebrate

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder how much validity is in the wt teaching that it's wrong to celebrate holidays.

  did jesus followers in the first century really not get involved in nationalistic activities?

  is the celebration of one's nations independence at odds with jesus and the apostle's teachings?.

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  SolidSender

  Hi Frenchy, picking up where we left off (on a tangent to the original post):

  Is the song you're speaking of this Vince Gill one?

  [url] http://sites.netscape.net/songlyricstn/country/country_song_list/which_bridge-v_gill.html[/url]

  Maybe I didn't explain to well in my original post but it seems to me that the song you quoted and the film i quoted both deal with the same theme storytold in a different way - a head vs heart issue, or as you put it - duty vs happiness.

  Thats all I was attempting to say. Is that what you meant by your quote? If this Vince song isn't the one you mean ( i know there's heaps like it out there ) it's the same theme. Is that your perception? Let me know if you don't think so.

  Here's the first two lines of the second verse:

  I knew this was wrong, I didn't listen
  Cause a heart only knows what feels right

  The way the word "heart" is used here, this is what i'm talking about. You could also call it "the little voice inside", "better judgement", "gut feeling", "instinct", "intuition" and so on.

  when you say:

  The second hardest thing he will ever do is tell his mistress goodbye and walk away. The hardest thing he will ever do is hold his wife while he’s in love with the other woman.

  Your use of this this example to me is saying you feel that this is a duty vs happiness situation. I assume that duty = the logically correct, rational & explicable choice, an intellect based choice. On the other hand I assume you also mean happiness = the voice of the heart, an irrational inexplicable gut feeling.

  Am I reading you right so far? -SolidSender

  Solid: I’ve never seen the movie but I can relate to the scene in the barn as you described it. The woman is married and falling in love with the hired help, I’m assuming that’s the thrust of it. The decision is whether to pursue this and leave her husband or drop it and remain with her husband. Is that the choice that she is facing? If so, then whether or not it’s a simple choice is totally dependent on the person she is. Granted, the choice, i.e., stay or leave, is simple enough to state but the processes involved in making that decision is something else entirely. If you have never stood at the crossroads of decision, weighing out your own happiness against that of others in order to decide your path then I can well appreciate your viewpoint on the matter. There are times when the needs of others take precedence over our own needs and happiness. That is duty. Parents should be very aware of this as should husbands and wives. There is a song, which I think well illustrates this dilemma. I forget the singer and the writer (shame on me) but it’s the classic love triangle. The man is at his crossroads. The time has come to make the decision. Though he deeply loves his mistress, he cannot find one single thing that his wife has done wrong. She was there when times were tough, and she loves him dearly. The second hardest thing he will ever do is tell his mistress goodbye and walk away. The hardest thing he will ever do is hold his wife while he’s in love with the other woman. I truly hope that you (or anyone else for that matter) will never experience such a thing but if you can, hold that thought in your mind for a few moments and see if you can feel what he is feeling.
  It could be argued that he should follow his heart inasmuch as he will never be completely true to his wife anymore --BUT…he could never be happy even with the woman he loves knowing the pain that he has caused his wife. The cost of his freedom was too great for him to ever forget it. He will go back to his wife ( it assumed she knows nothing about this or knows and still wants him) and he will find some satisfaction in knowing that at least she is happy. He will hurt terribly knowing that the other woman will hurt just as much as him. In this terrible, no-win situation, duty (as he perceives it) wins out over happiness….because his perception of his duty will not allow happiness without it anyway. In the end, a measure of satisfaction (contentment, peace) is achieved in the performance of his duty. Such is the power of the sense of duty and responsibility, of committment.

  To a JW, his dedication to Jehovah God on the basis of what he has been taught by the WTS is stronger than his union with his mate. To leave the organization is more traumatic than a divorce. The person has to first convince himself that this organization has been 'unfaithful' and is unrepentant in its acts of 'unfaithfulness' and that this organization no longer (he believed it once did) loves him before he can detach himself emotionally and mentally from it. Even then...it is no easy task, memories remain, emotions still surface from time to time...No, my friend, there is nothing simple about it at all...
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  39

  From H20- "The Ultimate Rude Display"

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this at the freeminds site.

  it's a post from h20 that i just had to post.. .

  posted by lovesdubs [lovesdubs] on july 02, 2000 at 16:55:22 {mw75jfstgk0hi4vk0miqsqbw4hhnmw}:.

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  SolidSender

  Hi Frenchy,

  regarding your statement:

  Solid: They are not all white anymore

  a PR move perhaps? What's the ratio?-SolidSender
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  39

  From H20- "The Ultimate Rude Display"

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this at the freeminds site.

  it's a post from h20 that i just had to post.. .

  posted by lovesdubs [lovesdubs] on july 02, 2000 at 16:55:22 {mw75jfstgk0hi4vk0miqsqbw4hhnmw}:.

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  SolidSender

  waiting - hi & thanks for writing.

  in response to statements you made in your post as follows:

  Thanks for the clarification, sorry you don't come here to discuss scriptures. I like that aspect - for I still have an interest in learning the Bible

  I don't mind discussing the scriptures. It's discussing WTBTS manipulation of scripture that I don't have any enthusiasm for. Getting bogged down in those kinds of discussions seems to be a "can't see the forest for the trees" issue to me. To re-iterate briefly, in the mind of the adherent to doublespeak certain verbal triggers have been entrenched that once spoken by a doublespeak "opponent', close down the doublespeak adherents mind to any kind of rationale. You can't argue against it.

  I have scriptural questions I plan to ask and will post sooner or later. Things that perplex me about the bible itself and not WTBTS legalisms. In particular certain teachings of Paul I find hard to reconcile.

  that's why I think Friend "can" be very interesting.

  I don't find people like Friend interesting, in fact they bore the hell out of me as do most "intellectuals" - talk is cheap. Whenever I read one of his posts I feel as if I'm an entering some kind of Siberia of the soul. Friends posts also remind me a lot of Woody Allen type film scripts, like Annie Hall, you know where the charachters attempt to hide their insecurities behind "intellectual" posturing.

  I also enjoy making friends - with anyone I can. As I get older, I realize how much fun it is to share all kinds of thoughts with all kinds of people. I hope you gain that perspective as you get older also.

  Waiting my feeling is that sometimes a real friend or a real lover has to tell you things that you don't really want to hear, as hard as that may be, because they are the ones who really know and care about you.

  I do not come here to bash and thrash the WTBTS.

  Mindcontrol is the end result of massive doses of a reptitive message to the point of entrenchment. As I said in my post above it seems that myself and others here realise that they have to adopt a similar method in opposition, though we havn't a hope.

  However, there are some very good psychological sites about mind control that do a very scholarly job of it. I have posted links to a couple. Have you read them. By your previous comments, I would think so.

  Honest I havn't and I'm sure your sources do a far better job of it than me.

  So, you're a former Catholic like me? Did you go to Catholic schools, like me? I've posted about my knowledge of the history, slightly, of the church, why don't they offend you as much as the WTBTS? Did you go through this same cold hatred of the Catholic Church when you left them? I know I didn't, but they didn't care if I left either.

  waiting personally in terms of the mindcontrol question i don't think the two are comparable. The Catholic church is fairly innocuous in that regard compared to the WTBTS.

  You've been pumping out some great posts of late - keep it up-SolidSender
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  28

  The WTS should support these bible truths

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but supposedly a real letter to a justice in idaho.. dear justice eismann:.

  thank you for doing so much in your campaign to educate the citizens of .

  idaho that the bible is the source of our moral law.

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  SolidSender

  Dub - mmmm yea!-SolidSender
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  38

  Wolfsong

  by Seven in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  [url] http://205.178.160.247/artwork/scripts/artofwolves/wolves-individual.cfm?artworkid=157[/url]

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  SolidSender

  .

  Edited by - SolidSender on 1 August 2000 3:15:8
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  38

  Wolfsong

  by Seven in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  [url] http://205.178.160.247/artwork/scripts/artofwolves/wolves-individual.cfm?artworkid=157[/url]

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  SolidSender

  Redhorse - ruff, ruff ( which translated from wolf into human means "sure and while i'm at it can i lick your toes?). I'm into dominant women who want to be worshiped.-SolidSender
• 
  30

  To celebrate or not to celebrate

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder how much validity is in the wt teaching that it's wrong to celebrate holidays.

  did jesus followers in the first century really not get involved in nationalistic activities?

  is the celebration of one's nations independence at odds with jesus and the apostle's teachings?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SolidSender

  Frenchy - hi man. sorry about the delay getting back, last time i checked this thread i hadn't heard from anyone and i've just revisited it now. Please allow me another day or so to contemplate your comments. I'm a slow writer, I don't know about anyone else but sometimes even a simple post takes me some time. thanks for the response and i'll write to you shortly.

  Waiting - hi and ditto if that's ok? there's questions i want to ask but it takes me time to sculpt them. You are certainly a survivor.-SolidSender
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  28

  The WTS should support these bible truths

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but supposedly a real letter to a justice in idaho.. dear justice eismann:.

  thank you for doing so much in your campaign to educate the citizens of .

  idaho that the bible is the source of our moral law.

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  SolidSender

  Dub, if you can come up with a convincing argument as to how the GB will benefit via more literature placements and property acquisition by adopting the above list of potential "new light"/"new truths" i'm sure they could sell it to the rank & file. It fits in quite well with the genre of fiction they've successfully published to date-SolidSender
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  39

  From H20- "The Ultimate Rude Display"

  by Dubby in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found this at the freeminds site.

  it's a post from h20 that i just had to post.. .

  posted by lovesdubs [lovesdubs] on july 02, 2000 at 16:55:22 {mw75jfstgk0hi4vk0miqsqbw4hhnmw}:.

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  SolidSender

  waiting, hope all is well.

  you said:

  We are a shockingly low species, in researchers opinion, and we can be conditioned to do, or ignore, pretty much of anything - no matter how degraded.

  please see the WTBTS if you wish to be taught by the best.

  You also said:

  Jehovah made the "lesser animals" with their instincts. With this thought in mind - would He congratulate and reward us for not only ignoring, but adding to, someone's obvious anguish? This is not consistant with love or the Bible - or [b]animal instinct[b]. Whatever happened to Jesus's parable of the Good Samaritan?

  Animal instinct is what the WTBTS program amputates from its adherents. As for the Good Samaritan - ignore him, he's a negative fact.

  Good point about the attitude of those at the funeral eg. you posted and my apologies for not offering any sympathies.

  I don't remember how old you are nor how long you were/are a baptised JW. Did you hold a position within your congregation? Are you disassociated or disfellowshipped or just a slip-away? You do have a creditable command of pseudo psychological terms, and proper English. Do you have a college degree? In what persuasion, and what level?

  In answer to your questions, I was a witness for 15 years, a convert from Catholicism. I did not attain any rank within the "organisation". This was due for the most part to the fact it seemed totally devoid of any kind of leadership worth aspiring to. I'm a slip-away. I went cold turkey, though that's just the kind of person I am, I prefer clean breaks. I did not furnish the elders with an opportunity to DF me by my conduct. This was for two reasons: 1)Providing a bunch of megalomaniacs ( the elders ) with an opportunity to wallow in their sadistic tendencies ( judicial hearings) at my expense is not my idea of having fun. 2) I did not wish to provide to an increase in hours ( under the pretext of shepherding calls ) on that same group of megalomaniacs monthly field service report slips.

  As for your comments on psychology and english, i have no qualifications or knowledge for that matter on either apart from my own experience. In writing I'm attempting to articulate/improvise the thoughts i now have as a results of my experiences as best I can as i go along.

  I'm not really here to make friends or be liked, or tell people what they want to hear - reasons to remain as a WTBTS captive ( though if i do make some friends along the way - great). I'm here to try and provide a counterbalance to that position if i can.

  If you go down to the tech questions box you'll find a question i posted simon regarding this sites hits to posts ratio. I really don't know how to interpret the stats definitively but on the surface it appears to be some ridiculous amount. possibly thousands of visits for each post. Once again i could be wrong here ( maybe simon can clarify ). i'll leave you to ponder on the implications of this. i don't know who those thousands of visitors to this site who arn't posting are but i've got a pretty good guess.

  Due to this and despite the fact that it may very well be an exercise in futility, most of the time i want to make what i say/post count.

  Waiting I do not believe that the issue at stake here is one of sciptural correctness. The documented WTBTS scriptural deceipt/manipulation/error is in my humble opinion now far beyond any dispute. I need make no further contribution to it. The issue at stake here is far simpler - are you going to allow a group of 12 white american males ( no offence meant to any americans - i like americans ) to control your mind and life? Hope this answers some questions about myself for you.-SolidSender