I'm wondering if this man was one of Jehovah's Witnesses before being convicted or if he converted while in custody. Anyone know?
SwordOfJah
JoinedPosts by SwordOfJah
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38
JW Sexual Predator Being Released to San Francisco Area
by blondie inwww.sfgate.com return to regular view.
judge oks release of sexual predator .
convict praised for progress in therapy .
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92
The Society's response to my letter regarding my dad's suicide
by cruzanheart inwell, i finally got a response to my letter, and it only took them almost three months!
models of efficiency, they are.
actually, big tex and i think they had to run this through the legal department.
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SwordOfJah
I'm sorry your are hurt, but it is clear that your emotions are getting in the way of your judgement towards the elders and the brother who wrote the letter. I will leave it at that since I don't want to add to your pain. Signing off from this thread...
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92
The Society's response to my letter regarding my dad's suicide
by cruzanheart inwell, i finally got a response to my letter, and it only took them almost three months!
models of efficiency, they are.
actually, big tex and i think they had to run this through the legal department.
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SwordOfJah
The letter is not bad and it is addressing issues that you wrote about in the original letter:
It starts out with giving you a biblical hope in your time of sorrow.
They are not saying that you lied, they are saying that there might be a misunderstanding.
They took a few months to answer you because they obviously wrote to the body of elders and they had to respond to their questions in writing. This was wise as it's always good to get both sides of a story.
They then point out what the elders did to help your father. This might have been overlooked as you are envolved emotionally. This of course is understandable. When a tragedy occurs, as imperfect humans, we tend to want to point fingers to find someone at fault.
Let me share an experience I had. One time a sister accused me of being negligent with my widowed mom. I was very furious at her! I take care of my mom, I pay her bills, I visit her daily, I run over to her home every single time she has a need. See, the sister accusing me did not see me doing all these things for my mom. Why did she accuse me of being negligent then? Because my mom had mentioned to her in service that she felt lonely. The sister immediately assumed that it's because I was negligent. But my mom was feeling that way because of having lost my father and the anniversary of this death was a few days away. So sometimes we are criticized even though we ARE doing things right. Could that have happend with the elders? Could they have been taking care of your father as the letter states, but it went unnoticed by you or your husband?
I wish you well.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
avishai:
If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
144thousand:
that's a really pathetic way of dealing with a problem of this nature (i.e. waiting on Jehovah).
You call it pathetic, I call it faith.
What about the right of the victim to have competent authorities investigate the matter, rather than the "judicial committee" comprised of folks who in most cases have zero experience or training as investigators?
Actually I know many elders that are very good investigators. Yes, even better than some cops I've dealt with. I've also known some elders that are horrible as investigators. Elders are instructed to use experienced brothers in judicial committees. The victim does have the right for the authorities to investigate the matter, I agree with you there.
DJ:
I am in agreement with your last post.
LyeinEyes:
I agree that it is very difficult to keep an eye on a past molestor 24/7. I don't know about announcing to the whole congregation about his past actions. Doesn't the individual have some rights on this matter? For example in the case I states, it had been 10 years since the conviction and before he had studied with the Witnesses. But I see your point. The congregation is warned without naming names just like they warned of those that are leading double life. They could say something like "we should be careful when strangers move into the congregation because we don't know their past, they could have been child abusers or committed other crimes." That works most of the time as the congregation is pretty bright and they will be careful.
Xandria:
The JC should not involve itself in judging matters like this. IT should directly be handled by the authorites.
I disagree. We are a theocracy first, then we respond to the authorities.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
unbeliever:
The case happened back in the middle of the 1980's. The elders did ask the parents of the girls if they wanted to go to the authorites. The parents all said that they would be satisfied if he was disfellowshipped. The elders left it at that.
DJ:
When a molester confesses and even seems to appear to be repenant to an elder that does not mean that he/she should not be disciplined by the authorities that God uses.
I agree.
The watchtower magazine admits that child molesters rarely change and the molested usually are not lying.
True.
Isn't it best too err on the side of caution for the protection of the children in the flock?
Yes I agree completely that the protection of the children should be priority #1. But sometimes that the alleged "victim" is an adult and is now remembering or accusing the alleged "abuser". Even in a court of law, those accused do have certain rights. So too in the congregation. They have a right to be heard by a judicial committee before being turned into the authorities.
The cases of molestation victims is heartwrenching, don't you agree?
Yes, I agree.
It is just sad to know that it could be prevented by using Jehovah's legal authorities (of criminal acts) in the first place.
Only to a point. Because if the abuser is turned into the authorities it's because he has already abused a child. The criminal act is not erased and a child is already damaged. The question is: Will it ever be possible to erase these criminal acts before they happen? Our only hope is to wait on Jehovah.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
DJ:
I understand your view. I agree that the police is equipped to determine the facts, although sometimes they screw up big time also. It IS God's arrangement to respect and follow laws by the governing authorities. JWs do that, but the laws of course change from state to state, from country to country. But it's also God's arrangement that elders handle sinners judicially within the congregation. These elders are responsable of keeping the congregation clean.
I do understand why the Watchtower did not give out confidential information on molestors that have been sent to jail. I believe Mulan also said she knew of a case where this happened. The Watchtower will not reveal confidential cases, specially to the Media. We all know how the Media can turn things around and sensationalize things just to attract viewers. The Watchtower will not play their games.
As in regards to that phone call that Bill Bowen taped with the brother from the Legal Department, it's interesting that they only played what the Legal Department said. They did not describe the case that Bowen was referring to, we were not able to hear what he told the brother from the Legal Department. Although you criticize the expression "Leave it to Jehovah", this is not hard to understand for us Witnesses that have faith in that Jehovah will make things straight in due time.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
Mulan:
That's true. So the responsability falls on those elders to keep an eye on the guy. I was in a congregation where a past molester moved into it. The original body of elders informed that he had been convicted of molesting a child before he became a witness about 10 years back. The new congregations elders met with him and informed him clearly that they did not want to see him touch a child in the congregation, he couldn't pick up a child in his arms, he couldn't be talking to a child by himself. If he did then he would immediately faced a judicial committee. The elders told him that they would protect the congregations children at all costs. He agreed and up to this day they have had no problems with him. Seems a bit extreme being that the conviction had happened 10 years earlier and before he studie with the Witnesses. But the elders wanted to make sure he understeed his restrictions in regards to children.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
Benderr:
Come on, you know that it's not true that a molester would be moved to a different congregation. If JWs handle one thing right it's the judicial process. No one is exempt. Even if someone tries to "run-away" from facing a judicial committee and moves to a different congregation, the original will contact the new congregation and inform them of what's going on. If you've ever changed congregations, you know that this information is detailed on who you are and what kind of Witness to where in the original congregation.
outoftheorg:
It's difficult for me to comment on your particular case. It does seem odd, but you must be leaving out some important details about the case. What did the elders tell the Legal Department? Why would the Legal Department tell them to drop it? Was there enough proof? What was the elders reasoning behind the decision? Many questions are unanswered. Since you are so close to the case, it's hard to comment on a one-sided story.
pettygrudger:
I agree with you and I'm not saying everything is perfect with the way elders hanlded some cases. I know they misjudge and make grave errors. The Society will most of the time go by what the local elders are doing and saying about the case. I'm sorry you were treated that way. I do believe these elders will have to answer to Jehovah in the end. I really don't want to be in their shoes. At the same time, I know very well that someone is capable of lieing, specially if they are pissed off at the Organization.
gcc2k:
If you have asked question to me and I have not answered, I'm sorry. I have not noticed any direct questions. Again in your post, you state your opnion but there is no question directed at me. So I read your opinion and then leave it at that.
avishai & Nathan:
Yes.
Mary:
Mary, I'm from the same planet as you. Obviously you like to exxagerate for impact. You say: "What planet are YOU from? These pedophiles are never DF'd, that's the whole problem".
That's not a true statement. You're going to tell me that not one pedophile has ever been disfellowshipped? I know for a fact that this is false as I have seen first-hand not only that a pedophile was disfellowshipped, but also turned into the police.
The reason the Society did not provide examples of these cases is because this is confidential and within the congregations. It's not for the whole world to know about . They don't need the approval of the world nor the media.
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182
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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SwordOfJah
DJ:
THAT is the problem. How often does a child have two witnesses to their molestation? Do you think it is wise to just believe the perp over the child?
This IS true. I do agree that it is very hard. But I also know that there are interrogation techniques that can help the elders know who is lieing. I DO acknowledge that some elders do not know how to interrogate someone or maybe don't know how to ask the right questions. In a case where it's the accused word against a child, who is lieing? I've personally witnessed both sides of this question.
One case in the 80's had five teenage girls accusing one brother of molesting them. Their exact words were that "he had tried to kiss them" and "touch them in their private parts". According to their testimony, he had done so in a period of three years. A judicial committee was formed. He denied the charges. But it was five victims against his word. He was disfellowshipped. He appealed but he was still disfellowshipped. He wrote to the Society but the Society said there was enough proof against the brother based on the testimony of five girls. I personally wanted this guy in jail. I was really pissed because his wife stood by him all the time despite the testimony of these five young sisters.
Two years later, the brother was still disfellowshipped. One of the original five girls confesses to her parents that she has a dirty conscience because she lied about what the brother had done to her. The parents immediately contact the elders. The elders meet with three of the five girls (two had since the case moved out of the congregation). Seeing that one had already confessed, all three say that they lied. They said that the brother had never attempted to touch them as they had described. They contacted the other two girls that had moved out, but they did not want to meet with the elders. Instead, they sent a signed letter stating that the accusations had all been false and that the brother had never molested them. Why did they lie to the elders about this brother? According to them, they wanted to get back at the brother for getting two of them in trouble with their parents. He had seen them with worldy boys and had told on them to the parents.
In another case, a brother confessed to the elders that he had sexually abused his young blood sister. He confessed after an elder had given a tough talk about "hidden sins" affecting the congregation. A judicial committee was formed. He was disfellowshipped. After calling the Legal Department, he was turned into the authorities within 24 hours. He went to prison.