i don't think we're anything alike from what i've read of your posts.
i'm interested to know what you think...... an old saying comes to mind though:.
"you laugh at me coz i'm different, but i laugh coz you're all the same" .
I don't know if where the same. Big Tex did get mad at me for expressing an angle to the situation that might have been overlooked because of emotions getting in the way.
I know one thing, I like you because you are sincere and are reasonable in your views.
www.sfgate.com return to regular view.
judge oks release of sexual predator .
convict praised for progress in therapy .
Do you think the Bible has the power to change such a man? Jehovah did forgive King Manaseh even though he sacrificed his own children to a false god earlier in life.
Is it impossible for a child abuser to change his ways? I know it's a mental sickness, but has any ever acomplished a change?
www.sfgate.com return to regular view.
judge oks release of sexual predator .
convict praised for progress in therapy .
I'm wondering if this man was one of Jehovah's Witnesses before being convicted or if he converted while in custody. Anyone know?
well, i finally got a response to my letter, and it only took them almost three months!
models of efficiency, they are.
actually, big tex and i think they had to run this through the legal department.
I'm sorry your are hurt, but it is clear that your emotions are getting in the way of your judgement towards the elders and the brother who wrote the letter. I will leave it at that since I don't want to add to your pain. Signing off from this thread...
well, i finally got a response to my letter, and it only took them almost three months!
models of efficiency, they are.
actually, big tex and i think they had to run this through the legal department.
The letter is not bad and it is addressing issues that you wrote about in the original letter:
It starts out with giving you a biblical hope in your time of sorrow.
They are not saying that you lied, they are saying that there might be a misunderstanding.
They took a few months to answer you because they obviously wrote to the body of elders and they had to respond to their questions in writing. This was wise as it's always good to get both sides of a story.
They then point out what the elders did to help your father. This might have been overlooked as you are envolved emotionally. This of course is understandable. When a tragedy occurs, as imperfect humans, we tend to want to point fingers to find someone at fault.
Let me share an experience I had. One time a sister accused me of being negligent with my widowed mom. I was very furious at her! I take care of my mom, I pay her bills, I visit her daily, I run over to her home every single time she has a need. See, the sister accusing me did not see me doing all these things for my mom. Why did she accuse me of being negligent then? Because my mom had mentioned to her in service that she felt lonely. The sister immediately assumed that it's because I was negligent. But my mom was feeling that way because of having lost my father and the anniversary of this death was a few days away. So sometimes we are criticized even though we ARE doing things right. Could that have happend with the elders? Could they have been taking care of your father as the letter states, but it went unnoticed by you or your husband?
I wish you well.
from silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
avishai:
If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.
from silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
144thousand:
that's a really pathetic way of dealing with a problem of this nature (i.e. waiting on Jehovah).
You call it pathetic, I call it faith.
What about the right of the victim to have competent authorities investigate the matter, rather than the "judicial committee" comprised of folks who in most cases have zero experience or training as investigators?
Actually I know many elders that are very good investigators. Yes, even better than some cops I've dealt with. I've also known some elders that are horrible as investigators. Elders are instructed to use experienced brothers in judicial committees. The victim does have the right for the authorities to investigate the matter, I agree with you there.
DJ:
I am in agreement with your last post.
LyeinEyes:
I agree that it is very difficult to keep an eye on a past molestor 24/7. I don't know about announcing to the whole congregation about his past actions. Doesn't the individual have some rights on this matter? For example in the case I states, it had been 10 years since the conviction and before he had studied with the Witnesses. But I see your point. The congregation is warned without naming names just like they warned of those that are leading double life. They could say something like "we should be careful when strangers move into the congregation because we don't know their past, they could have been child abusers or committed other crimes." That works most of the time as the congregation is pretty bright and they will be careful.
Xandria:
The JC should not involve itself in judging matters like this. IT should directly be handled by the authorites.
I disagree. We are a theocracy first, then we respond to the authorities.
from silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
unbeliever:
The case happened back in the middle of the 1980's. The elders did ask the parents of the girls if they wanted to go to the authorites. The parents all said that they would be satisfied if he was disfellowshipped. The elders left it at that.
DJ:
When a molester confesses and even seems to appear to be repenant to an elder that does not mean that he/she should not be disciplined by the authorities that God uses.
I agree.
The watchtower magazine admits that child molesters rarely change and the molested usually are not lying.
True.
Isn't it best too err on the side of caution for the protection of the children in the flock?
Yes I agree completely that the protection of the children should be priority #1. But sometimes that the alleged "victim" is an adult and is now remembering or accusing the alleged "abuser". Even in a court of law, those accused do have certain rights. So too in the congregation. They have a right to be heard by a judicial committee before being turned into the authorities.
The cases of molestation victims is heartwrenching, don't you agree?
Yes, I agree.
It is just sad to know that it could be prevented by using Jehovah's legal authorities (of criminal acts) in the first place.
Only to a point. Because if the abuser is turned into the authorities it's because he has already abused a child. The criminal act is not erased and a child is already damaged. The question is: Will it ever be possible to erase these criminal acts before they happen? Our only hope is to wait on Jehovah.
from silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
DJ:
I understand your view. I agree that the police is equipped to determine the facts, although sometimes they screw up big time also. It IS God's arrangement to respect and follow laws by the governing authorities. JWs do that, but the laws of course change from state to state, from country to country. But it's also God's arrangement that elders handle sinners judicially within the congregation. These elders are responsable of keeping the congregation clean.
I do understand why the Watchtower did not give out confidential information on molestors that have been sent to jail. I believe Mulan also said she knew of a case where this happened. The Watchtower will not reveal confidential cases, specially to the Media. We all know how the Media can turn things around and sensationalize things just to attract viewers. The Watchtower will not play their games.
As in regards to that phone call that Bill Bowen taped with the brother from the Legal Department, it's interesting that they only played what the Legal Department said. They did not describe the case that Bowen was referring to, we were not able to hear what he told the brother from the Legal Department. Although you criticize the expression "Leave it to Jehovah", this is not hard to understand for us Witnesses that have faith in that Jehovah will make things straight in due time.
from silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
Mulan:
That's true. So the responsability falls on those elders to keep an eye on the guy. I was in a congregation where a past molester moved into it. The original body of elders informed that he had been convicted of molesting a child before he became a witness about 10 years back. The new congregations elders met with him and informed him clearly that they did not want to see him touch a child in the congregation, he couldn't pick up a child in his arms, he couldn't be talking to a child by himself. If he did then he would immediately faced a judicial committee. The elders told him that they would protect the congregations children at all costs. He agreed and up to this day they have had no problems with him. Seems a bit extreme being that the conviction had happened 10 years earlier and before he studie with the Witnesses. But the elders wanted to make sure he understeed his restrictions in regards to children.
