Posts by Saename

77

Rumor: Discouraging news from GB at upcoming CA?

by bohm in

jw
friends

this is on the reddit frontpage and sounds super weird.

can it be confirmed in any way by anyone here?.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4u72dk/what_kind_of_announcement_could_cause_jws_to/.

Saename

Maybe they feel they can't keep the child sexual abuse issue in the dark anymore. They have been 'persecuted' over this serious problem in quite a few countries already: the USA, the UK, Australia, and even Germany I heard. Possibly, they may feel that if the rank and file members find out about the issue from the Governing Body, not from the apostates, there would be less likelihood of them leaving. However, even that still feels extremely unlikely, especially since the Governing Body has never admitted to making a mistake. That would be their first time―unless they admitted that there is a problem but stated that they are not guilty of anything, and that the policies are 'perfect.'

Other possibilities I could think of are finances, downsizing Bethel families, and slower growth rate of the organisation. In neither instance would they admit to making a mistake, of course, but they would probably offer some sort of lousy excuses.

Still, those are only speculations.

11

Inactive ones talk... some lies I noticed

by purrpurr in

the brother giving the saturday"inactive ones helping them to return".. he said, this year the society has been making an effort to contact all inactive ones.. and also... the elders visit all the inactive ones at least once a year .

bs!

totally bs!.

Saename

We had the convention about a month ago (which I didn't attend.) I'm surprised I haven't been visited yet, even though I haven't been to a single meeting nor field service in a long time...

19

Help Me Regain Contact With My Still In Family

by pale.emperor in

situation is, i'll never return to the wt.

my family with never leave the wt.. depending on who you ask you'll get the following answers when you ask about me:.

my family: he's confused.

Saename

The problem is that your family is influenced by a positive motive rather than negative. They think that by shunning you they will save your life. They believe that whoever rejects "Jehovah's organisation" is already doomed. That positive motive—saving your life—is a big problem. Negative motives aren't as effective.

Your family also sincerely believes that if you are outside the organisation, you are more likely to become an immoral person. Again, they think that they are helping you by shunning. In the case of the rank and file members of the organisation, their belief is rather sincere. It's the leaders who are really selfish.

Hence, what you're fighting against is not simply shunning. It's the belief of your family that they are saving your life—and theirs by adhering to the rules of their leaders. You need to show them that their leaders are wrong. However, that is nearly impossible. You were a Jehovah's Witness, so you probably know why it is so hard.

Proving them wrong is not a short process. It takes a long time—even years. Possibly, they will acknowledge your happiness even though you are not in the organisation. However, that raises another question. Will that matter? What if your family does believe—as many Witnesses that I have seen myself—that it is possible to be good without being in the organisation?

Moreover, when it comes to your mentally disabled brother, I assume he is being taken care of by your family as well, which would suggest that he is also taken to the Kingdom Hall by them. If such is the case, either you will have to convince your family that their leaders are wrong, or you will have to think of a plan to associate with him—however briefly—without their knowledge.

To me, it seems like another case proving that the Watchtower can ruin family life. I wish you all the best. You are in a hard situation. You will have to endure and lead the happy life you say you are committed to having. I think you may have to accept that you may not see your brother in a long time. Nonetheless, this is not a definite statement. It may be the case, though I wish it won't be.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

Saename - If some people believe that, that's fine. I don't mind. I used to believe that myself. I just came to the conclusion that there's no need for me to have faith in an unfalsifiable claim.

The above is directed at looter. I'm clarifying this because I noticed that rebelfighter posted something as well, so I want to avoid confusion...

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

If some people believe that, that's fine. I don't mind. I used to believe that myself. I just came to the conclusion that there's no need for me to have faith in an unfalsifiable claim.

221

Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents

by Simon in

judge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.

imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.

by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.

Saename

I'm so glad that the pressure from my non-Jehovah's Witness family stopped me from donating money to the organisation, even though I felt immense guilt because of the study articles and books that continually encouraged me and the rest of the congregation to donate. I always felt that my money could be spent otherwise, such as on education or entertainment...

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

But isn't in the case that they feel they need God because they think that God promises them hope for something—whether it be paradise or better future?

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

looter - What I was trying to say was that "judging morality and ethics by consequences" was just another side of the same coin.

But if judging morality and ethics by consequences is what believers do as well (I assume that is what you mean by "another side of the same coin") to come to the conclusion of what is good, then you don't need God, do you?

looter - Everything's a learning process.

Indeed. We need to learn. And learn. And learn.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

By the way, I think you may have to understand that being knowledgeable does not mean that you have to use big words. This is what I've been taught by English teachers all my life. If you're knowledgeable and wise, then you will actually avoid big words to ensure that the meaning of the message is not lost in the readers' minds.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename

looter, I reread that post, and yes, I misunderstood you. By the way, that "someone" was not "inherently conveying that you cannot be a high-minded individual with an ideology in a supreme being." That "someone" was simply saying that if you don't believe in god, then you are left with judging morality and ethics by consequences. He wasn't saying that people who believe in god don't do it; he was saying that people who don't believe in god do it.

By the way, you're being redundant. Too redundant. If I were grading you, I would admit that you are intelligent and wise as for your age, but exactly because of that, you are being too wordy. Possibly, you subconsciously want to show that you are more mature than most people in your age. (I've been there; it's rather natural...) For instance, you said,

Someone was inherently conveying that you cannot be a high-minded individual with an ideology in a supreme being and I was saying you can and that Jesus attested to that as well.

It's better to say this:

Someone was ~~inherently conveying~~ implying that you cannot be a high-minded individual ~~with an ideology in a supreme being~~ if you believe in a supreme being . . .