Saename

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Posts by Saename

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  251

  God is Real in Principle

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

  now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

  our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

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  Saename

  
  
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  251

  God is Real in Principle

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

  now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

  our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

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  Saename

  looter - I'd be inclined to agree but what I'm saying is that creation can be proof to people that God exists. Is that so hard to get? Just because you yourself don't see it as evidence and think it's wrong doesn't mean others don't.

  Am I speaking with a fool? It's not that I don't see creation as evidence... It's that it is not evidence by any standards! It does not matter whether anyone sees it as evidence... because it is not evidence by any standards!

  looter - Yes I was and recall using the word scarce once to refer to it. It was as simple as it could be.

  I don't remember you talking about ancient history... But I guess you were because you "implied" it.

  looter - Yes. That's true but not really involving when it's about someone who is engaged in wrong activities. It's about the process to the goodwill.

  I distinctly remember your saying that both the scientific method and the belief system can lead to both right and wrong. And now you're saying that "[i]t's about the process to the goodwill." And also it's unclear what you mean by "goodwill."

  looter - Actually, I believe they all do. Every species has an essence of the nature of their features. Again, my opinion. Don't take it as a statement of pure truth as it's subjective. Please.

  Fine. I'll leave it to you. I'll be doing myself a favour.
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  5

  The JWLEAKS.ORG domain's down!

  by oppostate in

  1. forum
  2. tech-support

  jwleaks.org domain is down!

  i liked that blog a lot.

  pity it's gone defunct.

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  Saename

  Forgot to pay?
• 
  251

  God is Real in Principle

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

  now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

  our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

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  Saename

  looter - Well, that was the point, Saename. That the two were similar. Obviously, the scientific method and the Christian way of life are different, right and wrong are opposites, we all know this, but I was just saying and pointing out that each can lead to righteousness or wrongness from an objective point of view.

  Which means that they are not similar.

  looter - I don't think it's fair for you to call people crazy just because you disagree with their beliefs when they aren't hurting anyone or anything.

  I'm not calling anyone crazy. I was pointing out that there is no logic in that meme just like there is no logic in your saying that creation can be evidence (which then you are contradicting later on by saying that it can be a proof), and how it's similar to the scientific method...

  looter - I know what the scientific method is, again I'm looking at everything from a pure objective point of view.

  Hell no! Hell no! (Insert Fear the Walking Dead image of the guy who says, "Hell no! Hell no!")

  looter - "Ancient history does not deal in proofs or disproof's but in evidence—usually very scarce evidence." Well, that's what I was implying, thanks.

  Hell no! Hell no!

  How convenient... You were just "implying" that... Just like the Bible can't say anything in a clear manner that would prove God's superiority... It just "implies" things... after it's made clear by somebody else...

  looter - I'm saying that each are a system through which people see things as certain. That's all I'm saying.

  Hell no! Hell no!

  You're saying that those systems are similar based on too general aspects!

  looter - I however believe all species are unique in there own way. Just my opinion.

  So... every species has an "essence" of who they are?
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  251

  God is Real in Principle

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

  now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

  our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

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  Saename

  looter - religious belief and the scientific module are two ways we as humans make sense of the world around us. In that way they are similar because they can lead humans to their path whether right or wrong.

  You are so lucky I'm trying not to be arrogant. I'm usually arrogant in my debates. Much more arrogant.

  What you're saying is way too general. Way too general. Again, so you can understand: WAY TOO GENERAL. Murder, racism, sexism, theft, generosity, love, mercy, forgiveness... They are also paths that can lead humans to either right or wrong. I guess they're similar, so why not sentence people to prison for showing love... because it's similar to murder? I hope you see why it's too general and hence should be immediately rejected.

  looter - Someone who believes in God and feels that there is evidence in creation believes that it is "evidence" based on how they see it. . . . / Someone who has pride [in] and commitment to scientific faith bases their commitment on what they themselves see as validation.
  

  Sure, it makes sense. It makes as much sense as this:

  
  

  I don't think you took Social Sciences in high school... You'd at least know what the scientific method is...

  looter - You remarked that the scientific method requires rejection of claims that don't involve refutable proof.

  No, I said that the scientific method requires that one reject a certain claim in absence of both proof and evidence. Sometimes if there is not enough of either the claim also should be rejected.

  If I believed that proof is the only way to accept a claim, I would not study the history of early Christianity. Ancient history does not deal in proofs or disproofs but in evidence—usually very scarce evidence. So, no, this is not what I claim at all.

  looter - The thing is that a Christian's use of creation as proof can still be proof even though it's not consolable using the scientific method as it's created by man.

  Yeah, you're right. God created his creation; therefore, creation is a proof of his existence.

  

  I have no idea whatsoever how that could be similar to the scientific method...

  looter - A believer trusts their decision to believe in God just like the person who is destined with the scientific method.

  I thought I already debunked your claim that the scientific method uses faith.

  looter - What truly makes us different from animals? It's our brain and how it exceptionally uses abstract techniques and a special cause to fix issues and communicate.

  I'm not going to debunk the above since Viviane already did that. (Thank you, Viviane.) However, you do say later on that humans are unique, and then you try to somehow pinpoint evidence that we are in fact unique (which Vivane has been reasonably rejecting as well.)

  I'm going to go even further and say that... humans are not unique at all. We are different from animals in the degree to which we can use rational thought etc. However, that does not make us unique. We are different because of evolution. Evolution can favour animals as much as it did favour our kind. What is so unique about that?

  Unless you believe in creationism... But then I would deny to even talk to you... That would be way too nice of me. You know that verse from the Bible... You know... 2 John 1.10? "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

  Oh wait... I'm misquoting the Bible... Never mind!

  
  

  .

  .

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  Should I even continue? I think I lost all interest in this discussion...
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  251

  God is Real in Principle

  by looter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

  now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

  our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

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  Saename

  The scientific method and the belief in God could not be further apart...

  Of course, in science there are things that are taken on "faith." (Notice that the scientific "faith" is in quotation marks.) However, scientific "faith" is different from faith in God—much, much different. When "faith" is needed in science it's because there is no proof that a certain claim is true. However, in absence of proof, there must be evidence. When there is evidence, it means that there is room for doubt, which is why certain "faith" is needed. Nonetheless, because there is evidence, the likelihood of the claim can be established. When there is high likelihood of the claim being true "faith" is needed to accept that claim; however, there is high likelihood for the claim to be true!

  Now, however, when there is absence of both proof and evidence—that is, when the likelihood is low—the scientific method automatically demands that one reject the claim. There is no "faith" here. This is completely opposite from religious faith. Religious faith in God is never based on proof or evidence because there is none for God. The belief in God is simply based on faith—not on proof, not on evidence, unlike in science. This is why religious faith and scientific "faith" are two completely and utterly opposite concepts.

  And, no, no faith is needed not to believe in something. Faith is only needed to believe in a claim. That is why when atheists claim that there is no God, they need faith; there is no proof or evidence for God nor against God, so faith is needed in both cases. However, when atheists do not claim that there is no God but rather simply reject the positive theist claim that there is God, no faith is needed. It's a simple concept. Really simple.

  And, no, I'm not even going to join the discussion about "the true essence of who we are." As far as I'm personally concerned, this is total bullshit. (No offence intended...)
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  31

  JW's opinions on bunker video

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the so called bunker video isn't just getting attention here but among jws as well.

  i've heard a fair share of cracks, some half joking half serious about the prospect of the video playing out in real life .

  but something else i've heard is that the video was meant to be figurative, an illustration representing the 'interior rooms' prophecy..

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  Saename

  FedUpJW - "Ooh. . .the "slave" is letting us know that the end is right here. We must be ready to get even closer to the org. and listen even more to anything the elders tell us to do."

  Yeah... It's not like the Governing Body has been doing the same thing for the past century...
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  35

  Jehovah's Witness grandparents ordered to keep faith to themselves

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  british columbia, canada.

  jehovah's witness grandparents ordered to keep faith to themselves.

  a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

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  Saename

  A.R. insisted the child "had begged to go to Kingdom Hall."
  

  
  
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  13

  5 Ways our Lives are Better Since We Left the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by KateWild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/gzaspgvg6co.

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  Saename

  KateWild - I wasn't submissive enough. What? Who? Me?
  

  And then they argue with perfect logic that they're not sexist.

  Speaking of perfect logic...

  

  That I used to accept that.........
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  13

  5 Ways our Lives are Better Since We Left the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by KateWild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/gzaspgvg6co.

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  Saename

  Here are the five ways my life is better:

  1. I can think on my own. I can do my own research. I don't have to look at the Watchtower publications to "know" things. This was especially troubling for me because I have always enjoyed learning about the early Christianity and the New Testament in the context of the first century. Whenever I found out things that were contradictory to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach my mind always tried to shut down, figuratively speaking. The same mechanism applied to things I learned that suggested that the Bible may not be the inerrant word of God.

  2. I am a much more tolerant and acceptable person. When I was a Jehovah's Witness, I had to believe that things and concepts like homosexuality and women in positions of power were wrong. Then, I had to "reason" to convince myself that having such Christian attitude was neither homomisic nor sexist but was actually good. However, now that I am free from cognitive dissonance, I realise that those Jehovah's Witness positions are in fact extremely offensive. Whenever I think of the past when I still shared said attitude I am utterly ashamed and disgusted of myself—not to mention the fact that I even preached about it publicly.
  

  3. I can have higher education and become an English teacher that I want to be in the future. Whenever I told this to a Jehovah's Witness, they always said that I was already a teacher of the good news. Well, that's not exactly the teacher I want to be...

  4. Whenever I feel attracted to a non-Jehovah's Witness girl I don't have to feel guilty that she is not "Jehovah's servant." I can date whomever I like.

  5. I can read any books, watch any movies and TV shows, and play any video games I like and are comfortable with, even if it is in disagreement with the Watchtower teaching.

  BONUS

  6. I can write short stories and attempt to construct my own novels. When I was a Jehovah's Witness, I always felt guilty about it. Why, you may wonder? Well, I believed—because of the influence of the organisation—that writing fiction that involved romance and violence of however small degree was wrong. Additionally, I was continually bombarded with ideas such as the imminent apocalypse. I often asked myself, "Why would I feel the need to write fiction if the real world was yet to come—especially if it was so close?" Now, however, I am free to write. A month ago I even finished my Creative Writing course, and currently I am contemplating publishing a book in the future.

  I didn't think my post would be so long... Well, I hope some people will enjoy reading it. After all, I should already start sharing my own experiences that I had with Jehovah's Witnesses, shouldn't I? :D