Posts by Spoletta

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

MeanMrMustard,

You do realize, that in the United States, people have been lifted out of poverty in a large measure due to the activities of liberals?

In the early 20th century, at a time when philanthropy by private individuals, family, churches and charities (the libertarian idea of the best way to help the poor) were the only options for aid, the rates of extreme poverty were magnitudes higher than today.

At the end of the 19th century, we were much closer to a libertarian society than we are today. At one time, before we had entitlements, there were large numbers of people living on the streets of New York's Bowery. Were they too lazy to better themselves, could they all, by dint of hard work and entrepreneurial savvy, become wealthy?

I never see libertarians like Ron Paul advocate everyone starting from scratch, each with the same resources, property, and education. It's more like, "let's live under Libertarian principles starting right now!" while retaining all the property and advantages they've accrued up till this moment.

You point out the many failures of Socialism, while never giving any examples of the successes of pure Libertarian societies. And why is that? Whereas Socialism seems appealing in many ways, most would agree that it requires a mix of some socialist ideas with capitalism, to achieve a fair balance. Despite your declarations of doom, countries with such socialist ideas as free healthcare and education, haven't fallen into ruin. You proclaiming they're on the slippery slope to total collapse doesn't make it so.

Without making me wade through hours of tedious, biased videos, and hundreds of pages of charts, diagrams and theoretical opinions. can you, in your own words, explain why no one has attempted setting up a pure Libertarian society, or, if they have, what was the result?

You are very articulate, obviously intelligent, probably well educated, either through schooling or private study, so you should be able to answer the question without the use of other's words.

I look forward to your reply.

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

Simon,

You are correct that the left is moving further from the shore. I think it's a good thing. Thank you for saying "the left" rather than "Democrats".

Any serious student of history will discover that the left (which I will from this point call liberal) has been responsible for all legislation that has helped the poor and disenfranchised. Abraham Lincoln would fall under that definition by today's terms.

Social Security, Medicare, and the Voting Rights Bill were all advocated by liberals and fought against by conservatives.

Strom Thurmond, arguably one of most racist of legislators, left the Democratic Party when it became obvious that racism was no longer welcome there. How do you think the term "Dixiecrat" came into being?

In 1939, 78% of the elderly were living in extreme poverty. Thanks to Social Security, that rate has fallen to 10% (still too high in my opinion.)

Thanks for making the point that liberals are moving away from conservatives. I wouldn't have it any other way.

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

MeanMuStard. So, I think what you're saying is that Libertarians say things in such a way that you can pretty much defend anything they say by simply saying "you just don't understand it!"

I don't, and since that puts me in with the majority of intelligent, clear thinkers, I think we should leave it at that.

Thanks!

43

Who would you like to be the next President of USA?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?.

Spoletta

I'll vote for anyone from a party that best represents the diversity of race, gender, and religion that makes this country great! Oh, wait... that doesn't leave much choice. I know! I'll vote for someone who will make voter registration easier, is against gerrymandering, and works hard to combat voter suppression! No... that doesn't work either. I've got it! Someone who'll work to make sure Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid get the funding they need, while making sure that all children get the education they need to succeed in this complex technological world we live in, while seeing to it that their basic needs are taken care of. Damn it!... I guess I have only one choice. ANYONE from a party that believes these things.

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

MeanMrMustard.

Sorry, we just live in a different universe. I went back and re-read the articles, and they look the same to me. I think we both have a completely different take on what is acceptable, and not acceptable in a civilized society.

Am I not correct that the Libertarian view of children, is that a mother or father may not inflict physical violence on their children, but should be allowed to let them die of neglect, by withholding food, shelter, or clothing, because to require this would infringe on their liberty, or freedom to do as they please with their property? Does this philosophy also mean that they have the right to sell their children? That's what I take from this article. If I'm wrong, please tell me what I'm misunderstanding. I'm sincere. I don't see any other interpretation of what I just read. I'm not trying to smear anyone, I would really appreciate your take on this.

Thanks.

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

Simon.

Being fairly sure, but not certain, that you are, or at least lean towards being Libertarian I realize that nothing I say will sway you, but want you to know that I've done my research, and I'm not spouting leftist propaganda.

First, I'm going to list the titles of all the articles I found in the Muses Daily Articles, which is part of their online website. Just type Mises Institute, and the title, and you can read them yourself.

Civil Rights for Gays

Human Rights as Property Rights

Children's Rights

Civil Rights and the Supreme Court

Why Discriminate?

Rothbard Explains the Proper Response to Climate Change

The Civil War: Both Sides Were Wrong

Freedom of Want is Slavery for All

The Confederate Constitution

The Despot named Lincoln

Social Security: The Most Successful Ponzi Scheme in History

How FDR Made the Depression Worse

There are other articles where they feel there is no need for minimum wage, Public Education, rent control, and Medicare.

Two of the founders were Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell. Rothbard has many kind things to say about the Confederacy, David Duke, and Joseph McCarthy. Rockwell posts interesting papers on lewrockwell.com with the titles

Legalize Drunk Driving

The Vindication of Joe McCarthy

and (you should find this interesting, Simon!)

Relativity and the Priesthood of Science

Now, to the subject of Walter Block. You say he doesn't advocate the despicable things he discusses in Defending the Undefendable. That may be true. But, here's the truth of the matter. He truly believes that those ideas are correct, and that the world would be better if we followed them. He is both a Libertarian and an Austrian Economist, as are Rothbard and Rockwell. He is also a pompous ass. If you care to hear his Libertarian blathering, go to YouTube and type Minority Report: Walter Block, and listen to what he has to say. I find him rude, arrogant and unable to answer simple questions. Of course, you might find him a font of wisdom.

These guys live in a fantasy world, where if everyone listened to them, we'd all play nice, and everyone would respect your personal and properly rights, we'd all band together and build roads and hospitals by pooling our resources, and no one would tell us what to do, or steal our money by making us help those who are lazy and undeserving, and if they die, so what? We're only responsible for ourselves.

So, if you wonder why I wouldn't believe anything I hear on YouTube from Joe Salerno of the Mises Institute, this is just a sampling. The world they envision would be a horrible one, where the worst of us would rise to the top, and we'd end up with Kings and serfs, like the good old days.

27

Infiltrated Elders?

by john.prestor in

so i'm watching john cedars commentary on the annual meeting from this last october, and at one point he shows a clip of garrett loesch talking about the struggles jehovah's witnesses faced decades before in the soviet union.

he claimed that police officers, maybe the kgb, infiltrated congregations which met in secret by studying with jehovah's witnesses, getting baptized, and then working their way up to becoming elders.

ceders jokes that this shows what kind of role holy spirit actually plays within body of elders, but another interpretation came to my mind just now.

Spoletta

Then again, certain police may have already been susceptible to indoctrination, and just switched allegiance from one mind control group to another.

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

Spoletta

Roughhousing? I went back and looked at the commercial, and though they were the same size, one boy was in distress. When I roughhoused with my brothers, there was generally a sense of play, and usually we were laughing.

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

Spoletta

Cofty. I wasn't disagreeing with your view of the differences between men and women. They're certainly there. I was just trying to give the women the benefit of the doubt, not challenging your premise.My apologies.

121

What Are Your Rights?

by Simon in

jw
friends

rights seem to be everywhere nowadays.

say hello to someone in the wrong way and you've violated 101 of their human rights.

people imagine they have the right to all sorts of things - food, healthcare, housing, internet ... so many things are labelled basic rights and then you get onto their human rights - a favourite of the do-nothing bodies such as the un to declare.

Spoletta

Of course, I was speaking of Joe Salerno.