Posts by towerwatchman

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Half banana

I do not have Adamic sin or any other defects curable by holy beliefs. I have no need for fairy tales to give me existential hope. You make a grave error in believing that the scriptures are something which we should respond to. I greatly resent the idea that I should be grateful to an unknowable god for allowing me to live! Listen to yourself and realize that you are thoughtlessly repeating tired old religious spin, something which can never be proved and therefore of no use except in religious jingoism.

There is an interesting thing about life, it is that it does not start with reason and ends with faith. A child’s mind is very limited and does not inform the child for the reason of her trust, but as she runs into her father’s arms she does so because of an unspoken trust that those arms will hold her. A child begins with faith that is then proven by reason. Over time that trust will be tested, and it is the character of the parent that will establish that trust to be wise. One starts life believing in Santa, The Tooth Fairy, Zeus, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster but overtime reason proves them wrong. My faith has substance, it is rational, based on the confirmed knowledge that Jesus has proven who He claims to be, God incarnate. Some accept by faith, I by reason. My faith is not orphaned by reason.

What is considered credible ancient text?

Caesar written 1 century BC, earliest copy 900 AD, number of copies 10

Tacitus written 1 century AD, earliest copy 1100 AD, number of copies 20

Thucydides written 5 century BC, earliest copy 900AD, number of copies 8

Demosthenes written 4 century BC, earliest copy 1100 AD, number of copies 200

Homer written 9 century BC, 643 copies 95% accurate.

All considered credible by scholars.

New Testament 1 century AD [50-100], earliest copy 2 century AD [100-130] number of copies from antiquity 5000, accuracy 99%, partial manuscripts 19000, quotations by the early church fathers 86000.

What is the probability they got it all wrong?

And you believe it is not trustworthy?

It has been established that what we have, which was written in the first century is credible. The question now is, “Is it true?”

One example: It is an established fact that Jesus did exist, was killed and buried in Jerusalem. That the “Christian” movement did start in the city where He was buried based on the claim of His Resurrection. It is one thing to preach the resurrection of an individual thousands of miles, and hundreds of years from the event, it is another to preach the resurrection of an individual in the very city and the same time of His death, and not only succeeded, but grow into one of the largest faiths in this world. They could have easily been proven wrong by producing the body, or an corpse. Why was none ever produced?

Paul's words were useful in recruiting for the early Christ cult and therefore selected for duty in the Roman Bible to rouse followers to action. It is only the the poor peasants who were led to believe this foundationless nonsense. They ditched reason for an impossible hope in a saviour figure who was renamed Jesus around 175 CE. We have moved away from peasantry.

Do you have any proof of this?

Name me one person who has actually overcome death as promised in the Bible. Two thousand years, countless billions of people born and still no results yet!

Wrong, where does the Bible promise one overcomes death?

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Steel

When John was referring to Jesus as the " word " is a reference to the old testament

Partially correct. Note that the churches in John’s bishopric where the seven churches in Asia Minor, the churches mentioned in Revelation. These were centers of industry, trade, and government. John’s churches were multi- racial containing Jew and Greek.

The word “dabar” occurs some 1455 times in various contexts in the Hebrew Bible. It is sometimes used in reference to the "Divine Word": "Dabar Yahweh" or “Ha-Dabar Elohim”. The Divine Word brings God's message to his people, especially to his prophets. The phrase appears for the first time in Genesis 15, in which the Word of Yahweh assures Abraham of his reward. The rabbinical schools at that time taught that the Word was the image and likeness of God, the universe was created by God through the Word, the Word was God’s first and oldest creation, the Word was a separate being from Elohim, the Word had not descended to Earth, or had the Word a need for a body of flesh.

The Greek’s believed that everything pre existed as a thought and then came into existence. Logos was that divine reason or thought which created the physical world and causes the natural world to grow. John comes along and says that he knows the Logos and that it is not a thought but a person. That for the Logos thought to exist it had to have a thinker and that thinker was Jesus. This would have caught the attention of every Hellenistic thinker in his bishopric. Not only does he identify the “Logos” to them but in the following verses John gives the “logos” a name, human qualities and affections making Jesus conceivable to them.

Neither Greek philosophers nor Jewish teaches could conceive of the Logos or Dabar becoming flesh. Since the time of Plato, Greek philosophers had emphasized that the Logos and the ideal are always invisible and eternal. The Jews heavily emphasized that a human being could not become a god, they never considered that God could become human.

John capitalizes on this and uses the Greek Logos, and Jewish Dabar to explain the deity and incarnation of Jesus.

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Half banana

The Hebrew myth shows an evolving god as the culture absorbed the ideas of its neighbours over time. Moving from a god who was someone you could talk to and argue with, to the rabid despotic deity who heartlessly would to kill all who didn't worship him. Simple reflections of a primitive society trying to raise the status of their fighting prowess. The OT god was the creator of good things and the bringer of evil as well. But although a son of El and having sixty nine brothers, Yahweh was always singular in nature. So we might usefully ask why the NT god is so different? Surely God doesn't change?

According to Paul the wages of sin is death. So ask why are you still around, why are you not dead yet? Because of God’s love for His creation that He holds back His justice to allow His creation to seek Him. Now there are occasions where God exercised his justice and used Israel to deliver it. God can do that, He is sovereign.

As to the idea of God evolving over centuries by absorbing ideas from neighbors, that is nothing new, I will leave it up to you to provide proof.

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To cofty

It is flatly contradicted.

Where?

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Doug Mason

I think the quotation from Epicurus is most apt, which starts with (check Google Images): "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? ...."

The answer has to take into account several things, love, free will and omniscience. God created mankind for a love relationship, to give love or to receive love, it has to be a free will choice. For it to be genuine love there has to be the opportunity to reject. If God was to intervene in our choices it will not be genuine love.

If God were to create a universe where all the possibilities would lead to salvation, that would be a violation of free will. One cannot grant free will and then violate it.

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To. Doug Mason

We have no idea what the original writers of "Scripture" wrote. There has been no God to protect it from corruption, distortion or deliberate manipulation. The WTS is only one of myriads who have done this.

What is considered credible ancient text?

Caesar written 1 century BC, earliest copy 900 AD, number of copies 10

Tacitus written 1 century AD, earliest copy 1100 AD, number of copies 20

Thucydides written 5 century BC, earliest copy 900AD, number of copies 8

Demosthenes written 4 century BC, earliest copy 1100 AD, number of copies 200

Homer written 9 century BC, 643 copies 95% accurate.

All considered credible by scholars.

New Testament 1 century AD [50-100], earliest copy 2 century AD [100-130] number of copies from antiquity 5000, accuracy 99%, partial manuscripts 19000, quotations by the early church fathers 86000.

What is the probability they got it all wrong?

And you believe it is not trustworthy?

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To smiddy.

If after 2000 years christians are still debating what John 1:1 means about God, jesus , their relationship etc,etc,
And we still havent heard anything from God.
It doesnt inspire confidence that their is a God.does it ?

On the contrary God had been very explicit through scripture who Jesus is. It is certain worldviews that do not agree with scripture, and therefore these worldviews interpret scripture according to their beliefs vs. adjusting their beliefs what to what God communicates through scripture.

There is an interesting thing about life, it is that it does not start with reason and ends with faith. A child’s mind is very limited and does not inform the child for the reason of her trust, but as she runs into her father’s arms she does so because of an unspoken trust that those arms will hold her. A child begins with faith that is then proven by reason. Over time that trust will be tested, and it is the character of the parent that will establish that trust to be wise. One starts life believing in Santa, The Tooth Fairy, Zeus, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster but overtime reason proves them wrong. My faith has substance, it is rational, based on the confirmed knowledge that Jesus has proven who He claims to be, God incarnate. Some accept by faith, I by reason. My faith is not orphaned by reason.

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Doug Manson

The prologue can also be considered the thesis. John basically outlines his book in the first eighteen verses. John prologue also addresses the problems that were being experienced by the churches in his bishopric. Gnosticism, Hellenistic thinking, and Judaism.

Note the opening to 1 John, John is addressing both Gnostic beliefs as it concerns the being of Christ.

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

To Doug Manson

Care to diagram the chiasm? Or should I google that?

77

Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

by towerwatchman in

interpret john 1:1 by john 1:1. .

the greek language has the definite article which has approximately thirty variations, is translated into english as “the”, and points to an identifiable personality, someone we have prior knowledge of.

but the greek language has no indefinite article corresponding to the english “a”, or “an”.

towerwatchman

Bungi Bill

Agree