on the sd course i have just finished it is interesting what elders are specifically required to look at before sitting on a judicial committee,.
1. chapters 5a, 5b, 5c in the ks91.
2. article on repentance insight book.
then please rip out 2 tim 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
and
Jhn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
hi stephen, i noticed that you posted a few things about caroline myss' work, i find it interesting as well.
i'm curious, have you ever investigated buddhist philosophy?
it's not necessarily a religion i think... mark
Intro
...words of wisdom many could benefit from
Dear Caroline,
There is a topic I would like to hear addressed anywhere you feel it
might be appropriate. I am concerned about the whole matter of
mental/spiritual health in the context of religious groups. These might
be any of the eastern religious groups so popular lately in the west,
some operated by trained westerners, some by eastern born teachers, etc.
Of course they vary as to authenticity or cultist qualities, but it
would be nice to examine the quality of that energy, which often seems
to me sort of parasitic and/or intuition negating. Even the ones that
speak glowingly of 'knowing the true mind' actually seem to be
compromising the minds of new devotees. I guess these seem like soft
cults to me.
A geographically distant friend, a very good and well intentioned
person, hid her intense involvement with a Buddhist group for a year or
so, then explained that she had hidden it from many people because they
'wouldn't understand.' The hiding worries me more than the fact that
chanting in a very foreign language seems somehow to ignore what is
available in our own native cultures, and feels like escape from what
one knows to obey an authority we don't have the language to question.
Didn't we go through this 'instant Buddhist' phase about 3 decades ago?
Admittedly, I'm biased towards the way you teach about spirit, using a
synthesis of all traditions.
I'm worried about my friend and many others who might paradoxically be
giving up their own best judgment tools in hopes that gurus will give
them better ones--at a cost. Would you discuss the health cost, and
possible antidotes?
Thanks for all you are doing.
Answer
Thanks for writing - Socially speaking, people have always worshipped in
a group. The majority of societies, cultures, and nations have come
together as a result of a religion shared. Nothing is more natural than
to pray and to celebrate spiritual and cultural rituals as a group.
As an archetypal template, spiritual leaders emerge from groups -
Rabbi's, Priests, Guru's, Medicine Men and Shamans, Sages, Oracles, and
numerous other cultural names - to be 'Point' men and women, enacting
rituals and granting blessings and bringing forth guidance from the
Divine to the congregation or society they serve. These practices form
the backbone of every level of society - neighborhoods not to mention
nations are scripted around religious cultures. These are the power
coordinates of humanity. And the accepted purpose for these religious
organizations - simply put, emphasis on the word 'simply' - is to
provide spiritual guidance and conduct sacred rituals with the anointed
among them having the role of mediator between humanity and the Divine.
Whew.
Now them, on the other extreme are cults, societies built around using
the shadow side of spiritual power for mind and power control as opposed
to spiritual expansion. In essence, cults operate on the same principle
as religion, only in reverse, or in shadow side of its power.
Having said that, let's now introduce the right a person has to serve
their spiritual growth in private. Many people assume postures of
silence just to avoid having to interact with people who expect, not to
mention demand, an explanation for them as to why they believe what they
do. I can understand why many people keep silent about their spiritual
path - they do not owe any one an explanation as to how they wish to
pursue their interior growth. But the consequences of such personal
choices to one's outside world is that it is easy for people to assume
that their friends or family members are involved in a cult or some
version of it precisely because of this element of silence and secrecy -
after all, where there are secrets, there are either financial, moral,
social, sexual, or religious crimes.... isn’t that what we think? (It
couldn't be that a person keeps something a secret just because they
don't want to be interfered with, right? We are a very suspicious
species and when we are not permitted into the main circle of privacy,
we automatically assume it is because there is something dark going on.)
On the other hand, secrets can suggest a fear based involved with a
group and when it is a religious cult, it is all the more terrifying
because a cult grips the unconscious far deeper than a political
loyalty. The aspect of eternity is not connected to political
involvement.
So, where does that leave you with you friend? I can promise you that if
this individual is under a spell, there is not much you can do about it.
Let me suggest that you ask (her/him?) to
tell you about her theology, but you must make a commitment to holding a
position of respect and an open mind. If you come on with an attitude,
don't even bother because that is precisely the reason so many people
enter silence on their spiritual journey. If you sense that
spell casting is involved - ala Jim Jones and Charles Mason - there are
such groups that offer intervention assistance. But you sure better be
convinced you know what you're doing before you go that route - and you
will need the support of at least a hand full of people who have
interacted with this individual with the intention of evaluation,
including psychological experts. This ain't amateur hour here....
On that note, God bless,
Caroline
the elders are coming this saturday to do their yearly.
shepherding .. .
i desperatly need a couple good "questions" to throw at.
Casper,
I would print out the testimony from the Walsh and the Olin Moyle trials.......There here on the board somehwere..........f you need them I will email them to you........
if things go bad just ask them if they know the principles........Franz, Knoor and Covington........
They will understand you are not to be taken lightly.
at the least they will be uncomfortable......
S
the elders are coming this saturday to do their yearly.
shepherding .. .
i desperatly need a couple good "questions" to throw at.
casper look under this post........
Things to read before a Judicial Committee
S
Wayne
THIS IS the new system and you only have 999 yrs and 360 days to go........
get use to it............you are not perfect ..you have to go all that time with no sin ....BROTHER...........better practice that self control.............and thickening the skin..........
on the sd course i have just finished it is interesting what elders are specifically required to look at before sitting on a judicial committee,.
1. chapters 5a, 5b, 5c in the ks91.
2. article on repentance insight book.
Joel but there is.........
Jhn 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Jhn 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Jhn 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Jhn 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].
Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Jhn 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
and it was condemned!
namaste........ i recieved my brochure the other day from the legal department of the wtbts in patterson ny.. i have not had devoted time to look at all 32 pages with the most critcal eye, but will share my most immediate observations.... first, we are not talking about some newspaper type document.
in my opinion, it is the finest layout and printing job done by the society to date.
the copy i have is copyright 2000. the fund that orginally peaked my interest is not mentioned anywhere i can find.. of the 32 pages only 6 have no color pictures on them.
LDH,
I share your opinion.......but in addition to the information I posted, if you read this carefully enough you can see anyone or corporation can contribute not only to the society , but to the charitable fund.
So for instance, if members of a non profit organization donated money to a trust, they could pay it out to themselves over a period of time.
Quite the thing....
I hope you feel better!
S
i was intersted in what brought "you" out.. with me it was the 607 bce thing.
i always followed the org and would have died for it but when i saw the fallacy of the 607 date that blew it for me.
i am now on a quest to try and find something to feel comfortable with.
UO
see the many posts about the "straw that broke that camels back"
after being on this site for about a month now,i have read many if not all "bashing" j/ws for obvious reasons.i am starting to come to the conclusion that this religion i was raised in is just another religion.but to bring a "thread" of objectivity,i was wonder what you all thought of of the religous freedom j/ws have fought for.i'm reading a book now called 'judging jehovahs witnesses'.some quotes:.
"i think the jehovahs witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legel problems of civil liberties"--harlan fiske stone,u.s.
supreme court.
"I think the jehovahs witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legel problems of civil liberties"--Harlan Fiske Stone,u.s. supreme court
One could look at their fight for the civil liberties. but I ask the motivation for the fight.
if the motivation was fredeom of religion, for all men, then why do they fight for such a freedom and then Judge all others that exercise this freedom as wrong.....Not freedom for all men but freedom according to their view....
I agree there is bashing here...I have dome some myself...but I have to say , when someone in a court of law expounds to the words of ....those who dont uphold the beleifs as a member of the JWS is subject to d/f and death...I see it not as a bash but as survival........
The SWORD of the law as has been mentioned cuts both ways.....
via "new light" of course.
would they truly follow it as scriptual bashing of evil ones forsaking their god jehovah, all this old light changing into new light makes one go hmmm........regards nojw
stoning isnt the issue
just kill them somehow........ in the name of chritianity
Legal counsel for the Society, Haydon C. Covington.:
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.
