yesterday afternoon the phone rang, and the voice of my 81 year old grandmother met my husband's.
ear.
if i could just drop off an invitation to the memorial for you and justin, it's next week you know...".
>Not that she's falling for it. She asked me recently, "Mom, how can
>they say there's gonna be a new world? How do they know that? No one
>knows."
Oh really, no one?
"But there are new heavens and a _new earth_ that we are awaiting _according to his promise_, and in these righteousness is to dwell."
-2 Peter 3:13
>Smart kid, my little girl.
Very smart yes :) And you're perfectly happy with calling God a liar. Nice going Essie. You're on thin ice.
READ THAT BIBLE for once.
-StiLLinTruth
this is only the second post that i've made on this board, so i hope that by posting this a second time, that i'm not violating some rule that i'm unaware of.
if i am, then i apologize to all.. however, this answer to stillintruth is on the fourth page of his last post, and i want to make sure he and as many others as possible can see it.. you will note that i sign my real name to the bottom of this.
that is meant as an open challenge to any and/or all to do something about it.
Old Fartel asked:
>: Thought I could change the world with my knowledge
>With your "knowledge?"
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>Farkel
Knowledge that leads to everlasting life.. or have you forgotten all about it? Farty? You believe in the Bible anymore?
-StiLL
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
>I didn't leave the org because of doctrinal beliefs. i left because
>i wanted to life my own life without anyone telling me what to do,
>what to watch, what magazine not to read what movie not to go to,
>what festivies BLAH BLAH
Heheh.. very cute! So simply put: you no longer believed in God or the Bible, or if you did, just wanted to ignore Him. The Bible gives us strict guidelines for life.. ya can't live with it, too bad! Step aside. Like you did.
Ya could have at least tried.
>How long do you think you'll be a baptized brother in good standing
As long as it takes. (Matt 24:13)
>when the elders in your congregation find out that you post to
>apostate websites?
I made it clear in the beginning that if someone needs help studying apostate garbage, they can turn to me as I believe I am the expert. I told this to our overseer, a very spiritual, respected brother, been in da troof all his life. They all know I got a 10mbit cable connection to the internet at home, and they know I'm the apostate-buster. I haven't heard one negative word about this.
>Have you made known to others in the org. that you
>post at such sites? If not then why not, in such a wonderful happy
>place of freedom as your org?
I have made known that I read the stuff occasionally, to keep up with what you guys are up to. I have not made known I post myself, as I wouldn't want any "normal" sincere JW reading the filth posted here. They should keep away, as far as possible. None of this stuff is spiritually upbuilding. Sure, the truth can still be found after digging through the crap, but it's months of work, and a waste of time. Unnecessary stuff. Brothers and sisters can just save the trouble and not read it at all.
>If so how did the ones you revealed this to react?
Usually "there's a lot of lies about us there, have to be careful". And I say "yeah, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt". It's a cool T-shirt btw.. with a nice "I survived from apostateland" written on the back.
>Again, would you reveal your activities to those in
>positions of responsibility in your org?
Well the overseer already knows.. I don't know if all our elders do. I wouldn't go on stage to announce it, no.. as I respect the Society's views on this. Reading bullshit is a waste of time and can be spiritually weakening. Any kind of association with the world can do that as we know. I consider myself a special case however.. what I see here hardly affects me anymore.
>I would greatly appreciate a response.
You got it, charlie. Hope it was fun to read!
-StiLLinTruth
this is only the second post that i've made on this board, so i hope that by posting this a second time, that i'm not violating some rule that i'm unaware of.
if i am, then i apologize to all.. however, this answer to stillintruth is on the fourth page of his last post, and i want to make sure he and as many others as possible can see it.. you will note that i sign my real name to the bottom of this.
that is meant as an open challenge to any and/or all to do something about it.
Hey there LONE WOLF.. thanks for posting. Enjoyed reading your experiences.
>You will note that I sign my real name to the bottom of this. That
>is meant as an open challenge to any and/or all to do something
>about it. Fear of either man or this organization I do not have.
You're a very brave old dude. That's cool. I for one will not use my real name, as I have no desire to be personally acquainted with most of the people here..
>Their enthusiasm was so great that they tried to ram the Truth down
>other's throats and drove them away rather than pulled them toward
>the Organization.
I'm not that enthusiastic anymore.. I was a few months right after baptism though. Thought I could change the world with my knowledge. Well, I soon realized people mostly don't care about the Bible.. so I've stabilized a bit since then.
>To be honest with you, I don't know why I'm disfellowshipped. The
>official reason is that I was guilty of reviling, but even the
>elders on the committee admitted privately that that wasn't the real
>reason. They never said what the real reason was.
Obviously it was something, gramps. Maybe you should try remember harder, or something.. I would be quite interested to know what you did. You must have been acting differently soon before being df'ed than say.. 5 years before the event.
>You think you have enthusiasm? All right, then pack your family up
>in the dead of winter and move out of Los Angeles County to the
>isolated Eskimo village of Bethel on the western coast of Alaska and
>stay there for 3 and 1/2 years doing all you could to bring in some
>fruitage.
Yea, well I gotta make a family first, so I can pack it. A wife is on the way.. maybe kids later. I was thinking about serving in Bethel though, as the atmosphere there was wonderful. But I've got work to do, money to raise and a family to build first. But ya never know..
>We've had six kids, 5 girls and 1 boy, and they all are kids to be
>proud of. The last four I delivered at home, at my wife's request.
>All are still in the Truth and doing well.
That's great, pops. Very proud of ya.
>Never in all of my 40 years of marriage have I touched another woman
>in a sexual manner, and that includes the 10 years and 1,000,000
>miles that I spent long haul trucking after I was disfellowshipped.
>I don't gamble, smoke, or drink, other than an occasional beer. I
>have no desire to.
Assuming you're telling the truth.. you've just earned my respect for life (for what it's worth). That, dude, is like VERY COOL. You rock.
>And you know something? I'm glad I was disfellowshipped, for I never
>truely grew spiritually until that time.
Umm.. errrr... uhhhmm.. now it's starting to get a little weird. Glad you were disfellowshipped? Wonder if Timothy would have been glad if he had been booted out for some reason?
>Sit down, little boy, and shut up. You have much to learn.
Yea, dude, 'cause I'm like young, and you're old. Here, have my seat.. I can stand.
-StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
>What about the fact that they have changed their teachings over and
>over again?
Also human nature. Humans make mistakes, mistakes go into print. Print is then easy to look back to, when finding mistakes.
>The WTS has stated that they are Gods chosen orginization.
There was ONE "organization" in the apostle's day too. What they taught was teaching coming from God's congregation. Reading the Bible we notice how many of the apostles had their imperfections, and quite possibly affected teachings too.
>Do you think God is a liar?
Hardly.
>Do you think God would tell His people a lie and demand that they
>believe it?
Nope, but his imperfect organization on earth might set teachings and rules based on His Word, and demand congregation members to follow them even if they were in error. This is unfortunate, but does always get fixed sooner or later.
>If the WTS is Gods chosen orginization,why have they constantly
>changed their teachings?
They realize they've goofed, then make a change for the better. They realize WRONG AGAIN, and make yet another change.
>Don't you think God would have told them the truth the first time?
God doesn't "tell" them anything, they read it and interpret from his written Word. Like I said, there are many places where things can go wrong.
Not that we've done so bad.. on a world wide scale, growth is nice and steady, and things are looking nice.
>You stated that you chose what sucks the least.
Yeah, forced to do so in this system of things.
>Is that how we are to detemine how God wants us to worship Him?
He wants us to worship Him in spirit and in Truth. I chose what's closest to the Truth on earth. Jesus is the Truth in heaven and through Him I approach his Father.
>And you said you actually do something that the Bible says.
>Well, what is it you do that the Bible says to do?
Oh.. Study God's word.. sanctify His name.. preach to people publicly and house to house about God's kingdom.. pray... go to meetings.. subject myself to the elders.. etc. etc.
-StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
Heh, fun how I'm suddenly called haughty, an april fool's joke and what not, after posting a few comments about how some of us really ARE happy and in the Truth. It's like a red cloth isn't it?
Also what I noticed in another thread here somewhere.. I think it was about the financial standing of the WTBS, and how everyone was hoping for them to go down, I couldn't help but notice one guy.. I think it was "larc", explaining a lot of stuff about companies that have been huge, then gone down.. and finally state: "So, using you analogy. Are the JWs vulernable? You bet."
Vulnerable? Of course we are. We're sincere, fragile human beings and definitely vulnerable. This dude really seems to hate each and every one of us.
Sad.
StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
In answer to the person who wrote
>Actually, what I really would recommend is that you read Ray Franz >book "Crisis of Conscience." If you don't mind rubbing "minds" with >the so-called apostates on this site, then you shouldn't mind >reading Ray's book.
Yes, I have no problem with it, I have it in my bookshelf and I've read it. It's one point of view. Some of it probably happened word-for-word, some parts are maybe not as true as could be.. whatever the case, it's a testimony of a disappointed old dude who thought he should run ahead instead of waiting for the holy spirit to fix things he THOUGHT was wrong. Strange how others have waited, and are now old and happy and still with us.
-StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
>Hello StiLL:
>Have you even bothered to read any of the posts here about what >happened to us?
Yes I've read apostate web sites for two years now, I know what's happened to many of you.
>I've seen a lot in my many years "in the truth" and I along with >most others here, left because of the UNLOVING treatment received >not to be immoral.
Unloving... oh :(( That's so sad. That reminds me of an assembly talk from over a year ago. We're waiting for the bus, at the bus stop.. finally it comes, we board the bus, find a seat. You're SO happy to find the only vacant seat, 'cause it's a long journey! The bus is packed full of people, it's VERY HOT. Then you notice how over there on the front seat, the air conditioner is working! Ohhh.. how you wish you were there, where it's nice and cool. Next, the fat woman sitting next to you with two kids on her lap proceeds to have her picnic, and spreads her stuff all over the seat, with her children annoying you.. and you wish how you were sitting at least a few seats away from them....
You see what I'm getting at here?
First, you were so happy to have got on the bus and get a seat. A place on the bus. Same thing with the Truth. First, we're so happy to be part of the congregation, but in time, human imperfections can start irritating us. How "our elders aren't quite as loving as those other ones in that congregation"..
Me personally, I've been blessed with a very good congregation. Excellent spirit there, VERY LOVING and caring elders. I do believe some have run into unloving behaviour, but that's how it goes. Live with being human, only way to go!
>You can't be serious when you say you started reading "apostate" web >sites and still decided to get baptized into the WTBTS.
No joke.
>What did you do with all of the info out there about the WTS?
>Did you decide to close your eyes to it?
Nope, I printed out most of the stuff and went through it during several months with the brother I was studying with. Luckily he didn't back off no matter how tough it got, and we went down to some serious study to get to the bottom of things. Most apostate stuff turned out to be either lies about the WTBS, distorted facts, or just plain hostility, which was easy to see through. Doctrinal issues were always solved in favor of WTBS.
>If you truly want to worship God, why would you chose to
>follow a false prophet?
Not false prophet. The WT never made any prophecies, they merely interpreted existing ones - yes, sometimes incorrectly. That's human nature again.
Besides, what other alternatives were there? Seems to me like it's either the Jehovah's Witnesses, or one of a thousand trinitist Jesus-is-God-and-forgives-anything-to-anyone -churches. Not hard to make a choice, even after a mere skim of the Bible. I merely chose what sucks the least, and actually DO something that the Bible says.
>i was d/fed for smoking, but before you start rubbing your hands >together, remember, i had walked away 4 years previously and stopped >associating.
Whatever. I'm sure smoking is a healthy habit, and saves you money too so you can spend it to support your wife and kids.
>when i first walked away, i was in good standing.
Shouldn't have let human imperfections affect you that much, pal :(
It's still not too late to come back ya know.
>hope in the future that you actually read that bible you are >thumpimg. you might find an eye opener or two on how jesus treated >his fellowman.
I believe he always had a sharp answer ready, at least when answering to opposers.
-StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
>>:Thought it would be kEWL to support a system that's based entirely >>on greed and the misfortune of losers?
>that's the main reason i left the borg. the other reason i left is >because of self righteous buttholes such as yourself.
>riz
Hey Rizzy, I'm sure you realize I was referring to the art of gambling, which many insist on practicing despite what the Scriptures indicate.
Let's analyze the "borg" then. Is it a system that's motivated by greed? What makes up the borg? The "dubs". Like myself! What do I get out of my association? So far, not a single penny. Yet, I eagerly spend my time telling people that things don't have to suck forever. Is this greed?
Misfortune of losers? Ok, I assume you mean that people realize life sucks, and they buy a helmet in the form of believing in the Bible, and fork over all their cash to the "borg".
The friends I know have wonderful happy lives and would seem like far from the average grim worldly face out there. Myself, I had it all.. work, friends, a life of parties and fun, good health, loving family... nothing wrong with my life - then I discovered the Jehovah's Witnesses and realized I didn't have it all yet.
Well I do now. And if that makes me a loser... YEAH! A LOSER I AM! :))
-StiLLinTruth
to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.
come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.
the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?
To all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):
What was it you did?
Come now, I know the amount of people who "realized that WT doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small. The level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.
What did you do? Come on, show us your cards. Thought it would be "fun" to go and get drunk with worldly friends? Thought it would be cool to start smoking? Lose faith in the Word because of too much associating with the world? (if you still remember your Scriptures, you should know what stand is taken).
You cheat on your wife or your husband? Thought it would be refreshing to taste the grass on the other side of the fence? Fun to covet your neighbour's spouse? Or did you just decide to get a preview of what marriage is like, and get into some good pre-marital shagging?
Ya started gambling, and never repented? Thought it would be kEWL to support a system that's based entirely on greed and the misfortune of losers?
Thought you'd forget about any Christian morals for just a while, and take a little vacation from all that boring monotonous preaching of the Word? Bible says we can do that?
Just turn completely atheist and believe in worldly "wisdom"?
And here you are, holding hands with others just like you, hoping that the feeling of unity will make your deeds somehow more justified. Hoping for the pain to go away.
You think it ever will?
I have just heard today that possibly several (as much as ten) kids from a neighbouring congregation might be booted out tomorrow, because of drugs. I suppose I'll see them posting here any time soon!
-StiLLinTruth
PS. Don't give me the "if you're so much in the truth how come you're reading apostate web sites" -routine.. I've been there, done that. I started my search for truth with these kind of websites. Freeminds.org was my first source of information about Jehovah's Witnesses. Today, I am a baptized brother in good standing. Goes against the statistics, eh??
